Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Ok, in Star Trek: First Contact, Picard states that there are over 150 warp-capable planets in the federation. So to that end, would the Klingons even have a chance? When Voyager came back, they brought back technology from 20 years into the future. So apparently, the Klingons got hold of that technology and now use it but still,
the federation has over 150 planets in it!!! Even if each planet only had 2 starships that would be 300 ships!!! I was looking at a map of the Star Trek universe, and the klingons hardly have any planets. Even with the Gorn, and the Nassicans, the question remains. Do the Klingons even have a chance?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
11-17-2011, 09:49 AM
Even though noone ever stated how many planets the Klingon Empire (not couting Gorn, Orions, Letheans and Nausiccans) which already makes speculation somewhat pointless it's not just the number of planets that's an issue.
How densely populated are those platens?
How rich in resources for support of an interestellar armada are they (minerals for construction ect.)?
How "interested" is your population in manning your ships?
In DS9:"In the Pale Moonlight" the Romulan Senator clearly states Starfleet has a manpower shortage.
I seriously doubt there'd ever be not enough Klingons not hearing "the cal of the warrior"

As far as territory, the it's been stated several times that the current map is incomplete and particularly the Klingon Empire has only a part of its actual space visible on the STO map.


"The Gorn sector(s) are to the south and southwest of the existent Klingon area, which itself actually represents only part of the current Klingon Empire."

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...64&postcount=7

When you look at the map used as a basis for the STO map and check the actual territory comparison between the Klingon Empire (red) and the Federation (blue) you'll notice at least in terms of territory they are not that for apart.

http://www.geekstir.com/wp-content/u...3/trekmap2.jpg


Oh and a tiny bit of nitpicking:
Picard said 150 planets in "First Contact", not "Nemesis.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
11-17-2011, 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
Even though noone ever stated how many planets the Klingon Empire (not couting Gorn, Orions, Letheans and Nausiccans) which already makes speculation somewhat pointless it's not just the number of planets that's an issue.
How densely populated are those platens?
How rich in resources for support of an interestellar armada are they (minerals for construction ect.)?
How "interested" is your population in manning your ships?
In DS9:"In the Pale Moonlight" the Romulan Senator clearly states Starfleet has a manpower shortage.
I seriously doubt there'd ever be not enough Klingons not hearing "the cal of the warrior"

As far as territory, the it's been stated several times that the current map is incomplete and particularly the Klingon Empire has only a part of its actual space visible on the STO map.


"The Gorn sector(s) are to the south and southwest of the existent Klingon area, which itself actually represents only part of the current Klingon Empire."

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...64&postcount=7

When you look at the map used as a basis for the STO map and check the actual territory comparison between the Klingon Empire (red) and the Federation (blue) you'll notice at least in terms of territory they are not that for apart.

http://www.geekstir.com/wp-content/u...3/trekmap2.jpg


Oh and a tiny bit of nitpicking:
Picard said 150 planets in "First Contact", not "Nemesis.
Those are some good points you have. I do remember reading that Starfleet is having a manpower shortage thanks to the dominion war.

Oh, thanks for reminding me. I know it was First Contact, I don't know why I wrote Nemesis.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
11-17-2011, 10:01 AM
Chance or no chance, we will fight to win none-the-less and when, in the decades before you die, as you years become as short as your breath - You can say, " I was there and saw the great War! " ...............
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
11-17-2011, 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamRadio18
Those are some good points you have. I do remember reading that Starfleet is having a manpower shortage thanks to the dominion war.

Oh, thanks for reminding me. I know it was First Contact, I don't know why I wrote Nemesis.
My pleasure.

And thank you for an actually pretty interesting question.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
11-17-2011, 11:57 AM
There've been two outright wars and one very drawn out cold war between the two factions, and while none of them ended conclusively, between the shows and the missions in game, the Federation seemed to get the worst of all three. Warrior culture or dictatorship doesn't necessarily need population to take on a peaceful enemy. The mongols were outnumbered at every turn, but still didn't face a major defeat until they expanded some distance into Europe.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
11-17-2011, 03:00 PM
I think the Klinks have the manpower.

Why? Because just like how the Federation has protectorates and affilated races, so too does the Klingons have slave or servitor races.

They can potentially match Federation manpower with their own.

Of course, adding the powrful Gorn And Nausicaan Empires also helps.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
11-18-2011, 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
How densely populated are those platens?
How rich in resources for support of an interestellar armada are they (minerals for construction ect.)?
How "interested" is your population in manning your ships?
EXACTLY!

The Klingons could be a VERY prolific species. Most people assume that in developed counties , the average number of children born to a couple drops to two or three for neutral population growth. Since Klingon Culture is a Warrior culture that places great value on strenght and combat prowless, it is very possible that despite SOME medicine to prevent excessive child mortality, the Klingons still hold on to a belief that the weak should be culled. This encourages increased family sizes so that children can survive to maturity.

Also, the Great Houses as assumed to be so large and powerful, they could consitute micro states in their own right! In most cultures that emphasize powerful feudal families, there are often MANY scions whom can go on to found new family legacies, OR continue to serve the family creating regional branches headed by uncles, aunt, and cousins of the primary family (children of the line of first borns).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
11-18-2011, 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
In DS9:"In the Pale Moonlight" the Romulan Senator clearly states Starfleet has a manpower
Compared between a Starfleet that has to recruit and train its officers vs. a Dominion that can clone Jem'hadar and Vorta.......

I'm also pretty sure Starfleet doesn't have a draft system in place, while the Klingons would.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
11-18-2011, 10:40 AM
Well the OP is kind of right, I was wondered about that several times already.

Its not the number of planets in itsself.... its the fact that the federation has 150 members (it will most likley have more then that = colonies), that are the ORGIN of at least one race.... 150 CIVILISATIONS.

STO timeline aside.... the Klingons have ONE civilisation. They may have conquered a few worlds, may have deployed their colonies earlier ect ect.... but still.... I dont remember seeing anything but KLINGONS in the Empire in the series. One Homeworld, one orgin.
So as long as the Klingons do not breed 150 times as much as the average federation race.... they should be seriously outnumbered.
Same goes for Romulans, Cardassians and any other empire of that kind by logic...
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