Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
11-20-2011, 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varlo
Surely the problem isn't to avoid grinding. As you agree, it's a staple of MMORPGs. It's how your character develops over time. The challenge for the developers should be to make the "grind" (such is the negative term now seemingly forever associated with advancement) an enjoyable and rewarding experience.
Yes, grinding should be avoided. It's a staple that needs to be nuked, lol. How can anyone find doing the same thing over & over & over again entertaining, advancement or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solar_Searcher
I would wonder if the Grinding that gets built into this type of game could be done in such a way that doing it Develops your Toon as you spend more time doing it?

With the abilities of the Toon peaked at the Ability and Training set up, I would think it would improve game Play over time if Each of the Fights you go into made you a better fighter in the end. Progressive Improvement with Experience??
I think they tried that when they added accolades but the bonus hardly seems worth the effort. For example, +2% against the borg after you killed 1000 is not noticeable in anyway I have seen. On a side note, there still is no trophy for killing 1000 devidians, mirror universe or fek'lhri & there is not enough trophy space set up on your ship either.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
11-20-2011, 09:16 AM
Grinding is a staple of MMOs because the game is supposed to be "endless" and "ever changing", or whatever.

It's a means of keeping people from consuming all the content in a short period of time, like most people do with single-player RPGs (often graded by how many hours worth of gameplay contained). This doesn't mean it's a bad thing because it acts as a buffer between you and getting to the point of "This game sucks because there's nothing left for me to do anymore, I quit." stage.

Grinding isn't going away because developers cannot keep pace with how fast players consume content. It's impossible, even for MMOs with massive budgets and large dev departments like WoW. Especially impossible for a casual friendly game like STO that doesn't have a lot of content to begin with.

So it comes down to how much grinding is enough, and how much grinding is too much? The important factor is making grinding fun and worthwhile. It must be worth the time spent in either entertainment value or rewards given; ideally both. Otherwise it's a chore for people who do it, and a hateful but required task for people who don't want to do it at all but must to advance. From my experience playing many MMOs, it's a difficult aspect to balance (if the Devs even care at all). When done well it isn't seen as a 'grind' at all, but instead, "Hey! I'm playing the game and having fun, and after a while I'll get a sweet item." -- typically a happy medium is all we can really hope for.. the ideal happens rarely and is mostly subject to a person's tastes, tolerances and commitments. Some people genuinely don't mind grinding, some people will explode at the thought or don't have the time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
11-20-2011, 09:27 AM
One of STO's biggest strengths is that you can choose your grind. Tired of mowing down ground combatants? Do space STF's for a while. Need something fresh? Try foundry missions. They all give dilithium at the end, so you have many routes to the same rewards. That's not something you'd find in a typical MMO (read: WoW gear grind).
That said, dilithium costs are still sky high, and that makes the grind feel hopeless. Striking the balance should be Cryptic's goal, and it's not been met yet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
11-20-2011, 10:30 AM
Last night I logged on in to STO after a period of 2-3 week's of even not thinking about this game, 'cause I've hit the end-wall and now there isn't anything more for me to do there except for those friend's which they still hang out there. And the reason for me being so in-active is that there isn't any thing new in this game, except for PvP which is a fun and unpredictably the dailies and the replay of old mission's are always the same repetition of the same. There should be some mission's where you do not have the same repetitive ending, mission's like the war in the klingon/federation front where every time you have the different end-goal and game-play or some exploration mission's for the fed's and some conquest or prisoner transport for klingon's, and by exploration mission's I don't mean the cluster ones.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
11-20-2011, 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borthan
Yes, grinding should be avoided. It's a staple that needs to be nuked, lol. How can anyone find doing the same thing over & over & over again entertaining, advancement or not?



I think they tried that when they added accolades but the bonus hardly seems worth the effort. For example, +2% against the borg after you killed 1000 is not noticeable in anyway I have seen. On a side note, there still is no trophy for killing 1000 devidians, mirror universe or fek'lhri & there is not enough trophy space set up on your ship either.
Perhaps they could raise the sights a bit more. + 2% after 1000; +2.5% after 2000; Up to about 4 or 5 % after more. With Improved Toon abilities that would make the Grind at least profitable in the end.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
11-20-2011, 04:41 PM
All games have grind eventually.
As KDF fan I just want more options to grind that are entertaining and have purpose.

The Key for any game is capturing that entertaining part of the equation.

I'v e seen the 8 KDF storyline missions so I know they can produce quality work.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
11-20-2011, 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
All games have grind eventually.
As KDF fan I just want more options to grind that are entertaining and have purpose.

The Key for any game is capturing that entertaining part of the equation.

I'v e seen the 8 KDF storyline missions so I know they can produce quality work.
Agreed, some of the kdf missions are the best in the game, I only wish they spent some actual time on creating more of them rather than taking the easy way out and cutting the first two levels out
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
11-20-2011, 08:31 PM
Oh as much as I hate to say it, KDF side we would kinda welcome some grindage.. it would at least be new grindage..

right now KDF jsut dosn't have much to do no matter how you slice it.. insufficent PVP to level that way anymore so it grind exploration zones, or grinf Fed/Romulan/Cardassian/Borg cluster fleet encounters..grind way of the warrior, grind FE's. Some more variety in our grindage would be deeply appreciated.

I wonder how it is that FEDS are running into grindage for characters on Tribble? other then you've been doing the same stuff for pretty much the last several months on FED side at least theres sufficent msiionb content you don't have to repeat any of it...unless of course you simply dont know what you have over there...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
11-20-2011, 08:35 PM
Look below this line of text, it sums everything up in a little rectangle box.....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
11-20-2011, 08:47 PM
Grinding = Repeating the same actions over and over to get an end result.

This isn't what we want. We want CONTENT. Content is the benefit that we the customer want, and not simple Features. Features are great, such as having shuttles, or getting more ships, etc. Those features are also worthless without a place to use them in a reasonable way. The key is giving us content. More storylines, fleet actions, and STF's. I'm still irritated that our beloved STF's are being converted into Fleet actions for a number of reasons. Foremost, is that Fleet Actions have a way of booting players off a team and locking people out after a 15 minute timer. What good is that? If someone is having severe connective issues I don't want to see my team getting dropped down to 1 or 2 guys (which has happened to me a number of times on tribble). I'm already annoyed that the Starbase 24 and DS9 Fleet actions got chopped up. I realize that they want to make fun content for players who want to just play ground or just play space. FINE. Create the standard version and a chopped up version. I want my STF's back. Chopped up STF's are just going to feel like we're grinding for the borg bits we need to make an item, and less like the epic battles they were meant to be.

That's not all though. Many of us have done the featured episodes (and other missions) over, and over, and over, and over, and over. These missions have been repeated not only across characters, but have been repeated for extra gear. That's great and all, but it just means that some of us have really worn out the tires, and we're running out of road. Give us something more to play with. The Ground Fleet action is wonderful, and I'm glad its being added. It isn't enough though. Bring back the DS9 Fleet action (Arguably the best mission in the game), and give us more interesting STF's, Fleet actions, PVP maps and featured episode content to play. All 4 of these items need to be done. I realize it takes a lot of work building these, but I think this is what the player base wants most.

All that being said, a lot of the features are going to be great to have... we just need to see these Features meet with Content. I'll end with this example. There are a ridiculous number of Shuttlecraft we can fly in the game. There is only one mission where its actually needed and useful: The Vault. That's far too many Cpoints of items for sale, on something that you can get for free and only play in one mission. I like the Vault, but this feature needs to be spread out into other missions or even STF's to fall in the ballpark of interesting and worthwhile. It can be said we can goof off with the Shuttle and that is true... but I can goof off in a miranda or do all kinds of things to create strange challenges for myself.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:48 PM.