Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I thought it might be a good idea to release some stats from Holodeck and Tribble for my character, a Tactical VA in a Star Cruiser. I liked my build on Holodeck, so my overall goal was to get my Tribble build as close to that as possible. Hopefully, this will start a discussion on some of the changes going on with the Skill Tree. All space stats were recorded at rest in the Sol System. Additionally, I should mention that I had a number of old Doff buffs on Tribble still counting down from assignments completed long ago. They all buffed skills in the old system, so I don't think they affect anything now. At any rate, here goes:

Tribble Space Stats:

Power Transfer Speed: 9.9/s
Bonus Defense: -15%
Hull: 49,683
Hull Repair: 167%/min
Shields (all quadrants): 6,682
Resists: 20.4% kinetic, 22.5%, 23.7% various energy types
Bonus Accuracy: 25%
Crit Chance: 3.4%
Crit Severity: 59.1%
Flight Speed: 21.63
Turn Rate: 3.2 deg/s

Power Settings:
Weapons: 104/85
Shields: 97/65
Engines: 53/25
Aux: 42/25



Holodeck Space Stats:

Power Transfer Speed: 10.3/s
Bonus Defense: -15%
Hull: 45,312
Hull Repair: 164.3%/min
Shields (all quadrants): 6,099
Bonus Accuracy: 25%
Crit Chance: 5.4%
Crit Severity: 84.2%
Flight Speed 19.09
Turn Rate: 3.2 deg/s

Power Settings:
Weapons: 109/90
Shields: 102/60
Engines: 52/25
Aux: 44/25


Comparison of Tribble to Holodeck:

Power Transfer Speed: -0.4/s
Bonus Defense: 0%
Hull: +4,371
Hull Repair: +2.7%/min
Shields: +583
Bonus Accuracy: 0%
Crit Chance: -2.0%
Crit Severity: -25.1%

Flight Speed: +2.54
Turn Rate: 0 deg/s

Power Settings:
Weapons: -5
Shields: -5
Engines: +1
Aux: -2





Tribble Build:

T1 Skills:

Starship Weapons Training: 9
Starship Batteries: 0
Starship Hull Repair: 5
Starship Flow Capacitors: 0
Starship Shield Emitters: 7

Assault Training: 7
Close Combat Training: 7
Away Team Leader Skills: 5/5/5


T2 Skills:

Starship Energy Weapons: 9
Starship Projectile Weapons: 9
Structural Integrity: 7
Starship Subsystem Repair: 3
Starship Power Insulators: 0
Starship Shield Systems: 7

Security: 7
Soldier: 7
Special Forces: 7


T3 Skills:

Starship Maneuvers: 9
Starship Targeting Systems: 9
Starship Electro-Plasma Systems: 9
Starship Impulse Thrusters: 5
Starship Warp Core Potential: 9

Firearms: 7
Grenades: 5
Martial Arts: 7


T4 Skills:

Starship Attack Patterns: 3
Starship Stealth: 0
Starship Engine Performance: 3
Starship Hull Plating: 7
Starship Shield Performance: 7
Starship Inertial Dampers: 1
Starship Sensors: 1

Stealth: 0
Tactics: 0
Threat Control: 0


T5 Skills:

Starship Energy Weapon Specialization: 0
Starship Projectile Weapon Specialization: 0
Starship Armor Reinforcements: 2
Starship Auxiliary Performance: 0
Starship Weapon Performance: 7
Starship Countermeasure Systems: 0
Starship Subspace Decompiler: 0

Advanced Warfare: 0
Close Protection: 0
Squad Command: 0


Comments:

I had to give up 17 ranks in ground skills to roughly equal my space effectiveness (+6 more in the Away Team Leader skills for 23 ranks total spent on space instead of ground). I am not happy about this, but I understand that the devs plan to split the space and ground pools eventually, so hopefully that will iron itself out. Notice that my Power Transfer Speed on Tribble is lower than my speed on Holodeck despite maxing out Starship Electro-Plasma Systems. This means that Power Transfer Speed has been nerfed, albeit modestly. Hull and Shield strength were both increased, but my power levels in Shields and Weapons have both fallen by 5 points. It seems to me that anything power related has been somewhat nerfed, though I wasn't able/willing to max out all the Performance skills to see if it's even possible to get my Holodeck Power levels back.

It's also worth mentioning that during a respec on Tribble, I lowered my Starship Energy/Projectile Weapon Specialization skills from 3 to 0 and there was no change in my Crit Chance/Severity numbers. So, either the display is messed up, or these skills are broken.

As far as the feel of my build, I'm somewhat satisfied. I definitely want my 5 power points in weapons and shields back and would be willing to give up a little hull/shield strength to get them if the tradeoff were possible (I don't believe it is). My only other major complaint is how many skill points I had to give up in ground to get my ship to perform approximately the way I want it to, but I'm reserving suggestions on that until we get a separate ground pool.

At any rate, hopefully this information is helpful to somebody out there in planning their build (or better yet, to Cryptic in tweaking the skill changes). Comments, questions, suggestions and discussion are certainly welcome.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
11-08-2011, 11:12 PM
Based on what I could see, you didn't put any (or many) points in your T4 and T5 energy Performance skills (hence why you're seeing a drop in power), nor the other efficiency one at T2 (I think). For instance, I only notice Engine Performance to 3 and nothing in Weapons or Shields.

Also, I'd say that 9s are overspending (as there's a drop-off in payback between 8 and 9) so dropping skills to 8 will get you at least some of the points needed to get the T4/5 energy skills up.

I'd also say that going to 7 on the T1 ground skills is overspending as well (for a measly 2% increase IIRC). only going to 5 on those will still net you 15%.

When I respecced a holodeck character on Tribble, I only lost 1 point in Weapon power over what I had on Holodeck, and that was speccing my energy skills to 8 and not 9 (9 made them equal, but I wasn't about to spend a T5 skill to 9).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
11-09-2011, 06:29 AM
Argh, I forgot to add the T4 and T5 performance skills - I did have points in them; just missed them as I was copying it all down. Thanks for noticing that; I've fixed it.

I know there's a drop-off with ranks 8 and 9 for skills and I am certainly going to mess with this when I get some free time to see if I can make it better. I've always had ground skills up to 7 on Holodeck (and have never had a problem with ground combat even after the S4 update), but if the gain is as small as you say, I might take that down a notch and see if I notice any difference.

Yeah, they've definitely nerfed power levels. I don't think we should have to go all the way to 9 to equal what we had on Holodeck - that costs way too many skill points now. We should only have to go up to 7, in my opinion.

I also think we should only have to go to rank 5 for skills we didn't have before - like the power transfer speed. We couldn't affect that before with skills, and now we have to pump all 9 ranks into it to come just short of where we used to be on Holodeck - that's just wrong, if you ask me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
11-09-2011, 07:28 AM
Call me a slowpoke, but dare I say it - it's not the skill system that's the issue with starship performance. It's the consoles.

Nearly all consoles have been either changed or nerfed. The one responsible for Hazard systems is now a Stealth console, while tactical consoles that buffed cannon or beam damage are now worse than a console responsible for a specific damage type (phaser, disruptor etc.).

Even though I maxed nearly all essential skills, I was surprised that my Marauder had a problem with power transfer rate. It was then when I noticed a console like EPS Flow Regulator Mk XI (blue) now provides only +70% bonus, while on holodeck it's equivalent gives +105%.

I'm not much of a math guy, so I just compared several essential performance aspects of my characters on holo and tribble. In some cases it was better, like the DPS on my escort, while in others it was bascially the same, or worse (transfer rate). I'll check the exact difference after unequipping everything from my ships later.

I don't think this was the right step. Skill system is one thing, but it's mostly the consoles that were nerfed. Check into it before you blame just the skill changes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
11-09-2011, 07:37 AM
Consoles that provide a skill bonus were adjusted to fit the new system. However, consoles that provide a flat power bonus were also changed, which makes no sense.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
11-09-2011, 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suavek View Post
Call me a slowpoke, but dare I say it - it's not the skill system that's the issue with starship performance. It's the consoles.

Nearly all consoles have been either changed or nerfed. The one responsible for Hazard systems is now a Stealth console, while tactical consoles that buffed cannon or beam damage are now worse than a console responsible for a specific damage type (phaser, disruptor etc.).

Even though I maxed nearly all essential skills, I was surprised that my Marauder had a problem with power transfer rate. It was then when I noticed a console like EPS Flow Regulator Mk XI (blue) now provides only +70% bonus, while on holodeck it's equivalent gives +105%.

I'm not much of a math guy, so I just compared several essential performance aspects of my characters on holo and tribble. In some cases it was better, like the DPS on my escort, while in others it was bascially the same, or worse (transfer rate). I'll check the exact difference after unequipping everything from my ships later.

I don't think this was the right step. Skill system is one thing, but it's mostly the consoles that were nerfed. Check into it before you blame just the skill changes.
I've heard the same thing from other sources as well. I'm just now developing my toon far enough to see how this shakes out.

It's also been said that the skill tree is still a WIP (work in progress) and that ground skills will be seperate from space. Let's hope that this is accurate information as well.

I have suggested that IF the ground skills are seperate that they could be added on to as a result of completing missions tjhat are related to tat area of the game. IF a player does not want to expand into the ground combat aspect of the game then (obviously) the skill points or tree in that area simply would not be used. On the other hand ... it allows other players who spend time in BOTH to make good use of skil points where they are needed without having to sacfrfice the ability to play the game affectivly on the ground or in space.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
11-09-2011, 07:51 AM
Holy crap, Suavek, you're right! My Field Emitter consoles used to provide +7 to shield power and now only provide +3.5. The EPS Flow Regulator has been similarly nerfed, as you said. The only other console that was changed was the Hazard System, which makes sense, but those first two changes were unnecessary nerfs as far as I can tell. So, I guess most of my negatives are coming from nerfed consoles, not the skills themselves.

Cryptic, I want either an explanation for this nerf or a rollback for all non skill-buffing consoles.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
11-09-2011, 08:02 AM
ok so here is what Ive learned about the new skill tree

I deleted my main (toval) from the tribble server and transferred it back over for a complete identical copy from live.

here is my tribble build:

T1
starship weapons training (9)
starship batteries (9)
starship hull repair (9)
starship shield emitters (9)
modification training (9)

T2
starship energy weapons (9)
starship projectile weapons (9)
structural integrity (9)
starship subsystem repair (9)
starship warp core efficiency (9)
starship power insulators (9)
starship shield systems (9)
fabrication engineer (4)

T3
starship manuvers (9)
starship electro-plasma systems (9)
starship impulse thrusters (9)
starship warp core potential (9)

T4
starship engine performance (9)
starship hull plating (9)
starship shield performance (9)

T5
starship armor reinforcements (9)
starship auxiliary performance (9)

ship: assault cruiser
all gear items are as exactly the same
borg shield/engines/deflector and console

the numbers listed on the left are the HOLODECK numbers, the ones on the right are tribble, after the respec listed above

HOLODECK | TRIBBLE

ship HP:
50701 | 50701
ship shileds:
8662 | 8662
full flight speed:
22.49 | 22.57
turn rate:
11.9* per second | 11.7* per second

abilities:
reverse shield polarity 3:
unknown (tooltip does not show %) | 1.7% incoming damage converted to shields
reverse shield polarity 1:
unknown (tooltip deos not show %) | 1.1% incoming damage converted to shields
rotate shield frequency:
174 regen / 38% damage reduction | 216 regen / 38% damage reduction
emergency power to shields 3:
2288 regen / +38 shield power / 30% damage reduction | 2889 / +41 shield power / 30% damage reduction
emergency power to shields 1:
1372 regen / +23 shield power / 18% damage reduction | 1733 / +25 shield power / 18% damage reduction
tac team 1:
no change from holo to tribble
polarize hull 1:
+44 damage resistance | +38 damage resistance
enhanced plasma manifold:
no change from holo to tribble
eps power transfer:
+32 power settings / 189% transfer rate | +33 power settings / 198% transfer rate
nadion inversion:
72% reduced energy drain | 75% reduced energy drain
hazard emitters 2:
+12168 hp / +19 damage resistance | +10527 hp / +19 damage resistance
aux to SIF 2:
+4053 hp / +30 damage resistance | +3948 hp / +27 damage resistance
engineering team 2:
+ 8347 hp / +24 warp core/engineering training | +8485 hp (warp core/engineering training buff removed)
engineering team 1:
+6260 hp / +18 warp core/engineering training | +6364 hp (warp core/engineering training buff removed)
miracle worker:
+14362 hp / +4787 shield regen | +14141 hp / +5778 shield regen

power levels

W:
115/100 | 110/100
S:
83/50 | 83/50
E:
58/25 | 59/25
A:
58/25 | 54/25



you can see that some things are better after the tribble redesign, some things are worse.

items listed in red have the advantage over its holo/tribble counter
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
11-09-2011, 08:59 AM
Thanks for posting your build, Toval. You have an awful lot of 9's. I'm surprised you can afford that many, actually. I'm guessing that comes from having few points in ground. How does ground go for you?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
11-09-2011, 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TantalusOmega
Thanks for posting your build, Toval. You have an awful lot of 9's. I'm surprised you can afford that many, actually. I'm guessing that comes from having few points in ground. How does ground go for you?
I dont do ground.


Im a space combat kind of guy.


even on holodeck I have no skill points put into ground skills.

on normal difficulty ground is easy. 3 boffs with pulsewaves, 1 with the ghostbuster gun and me with a minigun. so much aoe. baddies just fall over.

+ 2 boffs are turret droppers (and me engineer - turret, 2 drones)
+1 grenade tosser boff
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