Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
12-06-2011, 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
*SIGH* I wonder what's wrong with reading the OP today.
You're now the second one who responded but missed the purpose of the thread.
Noone said anything about MVAM capability for Klingon ships, it's about a BoP
with a fixed BO- and different console setup.
As soon as the MVAM acronym is mentioned, the thread pulls off into a different tangent. If the title had been "Klingons need a science-based Raptor," then I believe we'd have fewer knee-jerk responses.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
12-06-2011, 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marctraider View Post
Because I prefer a BoP model over a Raptor any day
And high turnrate like MVAM's beta part on a raptor just looks silly :p

I just ment having a BoP with Static/fixed Bridge officer stations comparable or equivalent to a MVAM or AE (There could be 1 universal station here at work, so that u can switch from AE to MVAM bridge officer setuo)

This would mean u dont have the 'luxury' to take a full sci bop or something, but at the expense of that u will gain some extra's. (BoP has less total stations atm)

So it will be a full worthy tactical ship like the MVAM/AE is now.

I take my BoP's mostly to use with the ordinary Tactical station setup without all kind of Sci crap, but because i still HAVE the universal stations it also means i lose an extra station even if i really dont utilize them to make a specialized Engineering/Science build. Just the mvam/ae layout.

Another idea would be just to have fixed Commander/Lieutenant Commander Bridge OFficer stations, and then 3 additional universal stations like Lieutenant/Lieutenant/Ensign.

For my sakes just give it 2 Engi consoles, 3 Sci (Or reversed) and 4 tact stations. MVAM has 2 pet ships which phaser procs can be devastating, so this BoP gets a cloak in return, Beta part of mvam is the most dangerous and tactical worthy of them, it gets around 35K hull, well ok... give this BoP a hull of 33K (Between mvam beta part and the heghta hull)

Tada make it a nice BoP skin and im all happy, i would most probably play KDF alot more if this happens, because now i hardly if never play KDF because of these limitations in the game... we should get much more customizability as well...
One problem I do notice is that Battle-Cloak equipped T5 ships only run only 4 BO stations as opposed to the Fed's standard 5. Yes, making them static would probably be a fair trade-off, but such a ship would most likely be modeled after a raptor given Cryptic's current ship class standards.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
12-06-2011, 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shar487
I read it, but yeah, missed its premise since I'm multi-tasking here at work :p
I see.
After misunderstanding a few posts myself I gave that up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shar487
If the stations are going to be the fixed / locked variety, then as another post previously mentioned, a science-modeled raptor is a better equivalent.
You won't believe how often I asked for a sci variant of the Raptor (even though my idea went into the direction of a Sci Comm and a Tac LTC) as a proper military scout.
Of course it would have reduced armament and some toher changes.
Too bad noone except a handful of people liked the idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shar487
The MVAM AE's have 5 BO-stations: 1 Ensign, 2 Lt's, 1 Cmdr, and 1 Lt.Cmdr, but no Battle Cloak.

BoP's only have 4 bridge stations total: 1 Cmdr, 1 Lt. Cmdr, 2 Lt's. -- This is part of the price they pay to get the Battle Cloak.
Well, the T5 BoPs have six characteristics that set them apart from other ships, three good and three bad.
-highest turnrate
-universal stations
-special cloak

-lowest hull
-least armament of all ships with +15 power to weapons bonus
-one less boff slot

of course one can create various permutations of "this good counters this bad" however I find it reasonable to assume the reduced boff slot is offset by something actually related to that: the universal stations.
In case of the B'rel they tried to offset the enhanced cloak as well as the minor increase in turnrate with the only thing they could adjust without overcompensating: even less hull.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
12-06-2011, 09:34 AM
With the current BoP...

CM Tac LC Sci, LT Tac, LT Eng.

The only thing you sacrifice is one Ensign Tac, which IMO is pretty useless when you have CM and LT.

On my MVAE the Ens Tac is FAW... and that's only there for fighter/mine spam management. It's only useful in very certain situations.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
12-06-2011, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark_Kent View Post
It's a Caitian, isn't it?
Yes, thats my Security Cheif...
Lt. Commander
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# 26
12-06-2011, 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvsaris View Post
With the current BoP...

CM Tac LC Sci, LT Tac, LT Eng.

The only thing you sacrifice is one Ensign Tac, which IMO is pretty useless when you have CM and LT.

On my MVAE the Ens Tac is FAW... and that's only there for fighter/mine spam management. It's only useful in very certain situations.
If someone can't think of a useful alternative to FAW in an ensign tactical slot then as Jorf would say, they are doing it wrong. The BoP gives up significantly more than just a bridge officer slot which is in and of itself a pretty big trade off in a game so dominated by abilities.
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# 27
12-06-2011, 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
If someone can't think of a useful alternative to FAW in an ensign tactical slot then as Jorf would say, they are doing it wrong. The BoP gives up significantly more than just a bridge officer slot which is in and of itself a pretty big trade off in a game so dominated by abilities.
I've already got a Tac Team, Already got two beam overloads, got APO, got torp high yield and spread. Don't use cannons so no need for rapid fire or scatter volley. Really isn't much else there to do.

Ens BOffs are just about useless in T5 ships... as there are only 2 or 3 Ens level powers in each branch (tac/sci/eng) worth using... and that's only if they aren't on shared cooldown with other powers.
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# 28
12-06-2011, 11:43 AM
Ensign tac abilities are limited compared to Sci, but having dual tac teams is very useful on an escort. It's nice to have that third tac ensign sometimes to have a second torp ability too.

Three ensign engineer abilities are useless though.

Some possible 3 tac ensign setups:

Cannon/Torps 1: CRF3, THY3, CRF1, THY1; APO1, APB1, TT1; TT1
Cannon/Torps 2: APO3, THY3, APB1, THY1; CRF2, CRF1, TT1; TT1
Cannon/Beams 1: APO3, BO3, APB1, BO1; CRF2, CRF1, TT1; TT1
Cannon/Beams 2: CRF3, BO3, CRF1, BO1; APO1, APB1, TT1; TT1
Cannon/Beams/Torps 1: APO3, BO3, CRF1, TT1; THY3, CRF1, TT1; THY1
Cannon/Beams/Torps 2: CRF3, BO3, CRF1, TT1, APO1, APB1, TT1; THY1
Cannon/Beams/Torps 3: APO3, BO3, APB1, TT1; CRF2, CRF1, TT1; THY1
Cannon/Beams/Torps 4: APO3, BO3, CRF1, TT1; BO3, CRF1, TT1; THY1
Cannon/Beams/Torps 5: CRF3, BO3, CRF1, TT1; BO3, APB1, TT1; THY1
Cannon/Beams/Torps 6: CRF3, THY3, CRF1, TT1; THY3, APB1, TT1; BO1
Cannon/Beams/Torps 7: CRF3, THY3, CRF1, TT1; APO1, APB1, TT1; BO1
Cannon/Beams/Torps 8: APO3, THY3, CRF1, TT1; THY3, CRF1, TT1; BO1
Cannon/Beams/Torps 9: APO3, THY3, APB1, TT1; CRF2, CRF2, TT1; BO1

Notice that there are never more than two items that share a cool down at the same time. It's best not to have a science team with this though. If you have only two sci powers available as an escort, it's best just to have HE1, TSS2 or PH1/TSS2 anyway, and just evasive out of the fight if scrambled or nuked. With 1 LtC Sci, I run PH1, HE2, TSS3 instead.

I think your problem may be that you are not using cannons on an escort. It's the only ship class that can normally run them, so take advantage of this ability for some quick kills. If not, you can try some beam target powers, but that will probably give you at least three beam boff powers, screwing with your cool downs.
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# 29
12-06-2011, 12:06 PM
you realize the t5 raptor is superior or equivalent to the defiant in ALL WAYS, correct?

edit: except for a negligable less amount of turn rate.
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# 30
12-06-2011, 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlightracer View Post
you realize the t5 raptor is superior or equivalent to the defiant in ALL WAYS, correct?
The raptor's turn rate and shield capacity is lower than the defiant. It makes up for it by having higher hull, and not requiring a console to have the cloaking ability.
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