Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
12-28-2011, 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pococurante
Not being snarky, but I decided a few weeks ago to make sure my toons all have the retro borg gear as I anticipated then that their costs would eventually be adjusted to MK XII MACO/Omega levels. It seems a reasonable adjustment to make. I burst out laughing when I realized the Tribble costs had been moved to Holo. You all definitely need to do something before f2p or the howls of the new players will echo for years to come, like the Ultima Online "Not-A-Mirror Mirror" decision.

Again, not trying to be snarky. I've been playing MMOs for a very long time, since dial up days, and there are certain things I think are reasonable for game designers to do.
Since when is being Prudent snarky?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
12-28-2011, 02:58 PM
I've been using the MK XI MACO shields with the rest of the Borg set lately with my Escort, and its pretty damn good. It has a high cap PLUS resilient, the only trade off to other shields like Aegis or the Borg shields are the bonus's, but so far it seems to be worth it.

The rest of the set... meh.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
12-28-2011, 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kostamojen View Post
I've been using the MK XI MACO shields with the rest of the Borg set lately with my Escort, and its pretty damn good. It has a high cap PLUS resilient, the only trade off to other shields like Aegis or the Borg shields are the bonus's, but so far it seems to be worth it.

The rest of the set... meh.
is the maco shield cap higher or lower than te aegis or reman shield?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
12-28-2011, 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAJ_2011
is the maco shield cap higher or lower than te aegis or reman shield?
The MACO shield cap is lower than the AEGIS and Reman shields but it has slightly higher regeneration and a really subtle but gorgeous looking visual. It also has a chance to increase your power levels under fire but despite noticing the icon on the UI I've never noticed an increase in the power level although it's only supposed to be +1 so I may have just missed it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
12-28-2011, 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAJ_2011
is the maco shield cap higher or lower than te aegis or reman shield?
Its VERY slightly lower on my Escort.

6237 - Aegis
5946 - MACO MK XI

Thats less than a 5% difference in shield capacity, which is made up for with the shield absorption and much higher regen rate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
12-29-2011, 06:07 AM
Cool, thanks guys. Have they improved the warp 9.99 engine to maybe warp 13? Really whay have warp 9.99 should our ships already do this? Most ships can as it is canon in series and movie. From warp 9.97 to 9.99 is not a big difference.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
12-29-2011, 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph.B
The Aegis set costs materials to craft.
And you have to raise your crafting skill, and pay dilithium, both to raise your skill and for the set itself.

Quote:
Both "Legacy Sets" cost much less to obtain and provide more substantial bonuses. Would you be okay with all the sets costing 120 STF runs?
That would be counterproductive.

Quote:
What about the MK XII versions that are dropped at about 0.6% (estimated)? I'm sure you'd agree that such ultra rare items should be spec'd accordingly.

Like it or not, the time invested to get the items should be reflected in the final product. Players should feel rewarded for their time spent.
The Mk XII items are already superior. If people are doing 120 STFs right now then they obviously feel that the rewards are worth it, or they wouldn't be doing it at all.

We seem to have an irreconcilable difference: You want to make the treadmill bigger and more rewarding, I want to make the treadmill optional. As it is, possessing one of the new sets and Mk XII gear is not a prerequisite for being competitive in PvP or participating effectively in endgame PvE content. I want it to stay that way. If the new gear obsoletes the old gear, then new missions will be balanced around the existance of the new gear. When people say you need to be fully geared up to be effective I don't want that to mean "if you haven't run 120 + [however many it takes for Mk XII gear] STFs you are dragging the team down." If I feel that the game says I need to run 120 STFs I lose interest in trying. If I can run 120 STFs, then maybe there's some interesting stuff there and I will play it.

As I said, I don't mind them getting a bit stronger, just not overwhelming. They provide some cool visuals. They have interesting and unique abilities. That seems fine to me.

P.S. I think, upon further reflection, that this basic conflict is endemic to MMOs. There is probably an industry standard practice and whatever that is, we can expect to see it here, regardless of what we say in this thread.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38 Methods to the madness...
12-29-2011, 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KlausWulfenbach View Post
Gave much to think about
I actually had to read it twice. So many people post knee jerk reactionary posts these days that when a supported logical opinion comes up it deserves equal consideration.


Actually, I think we are not too far apart in what we're looking for. Let me be very honest, I despise grinding for gear. Vehemently in fact. I'd sooner buy the items in the C-store than do the same thing over and over and over. I accepted that when I bought my LTS, I was going to play the game on Cryptic's terms ultimately, so I do what I can to make the best of it.

I can see how you might think that suggesting adding more items (and grind to the sets) is making the treadmill longer (good term BTW), but ultimately it encourages build variety. I'm just going to throw out my logic for everyone to critique:
1. Let's consider the the assimilated module, +5 weapon power, +improved critical rate/severity with buffs to hull repair, why would I ever take it off my ship? Plus, I just throw on either the borg engines or shield and I get a random +52% heal proc? Almost every PvP build has this console somewhere because it's just too good to pass up.


Side note: Kind of makes that +1 to all power settings from the MACO set seem pretty laughable in comparison.

2. Rather than take something away from the players through nerfs in the name of balance, giving more stats to the new sets will make players "happier" (at worst it will upset a small minority) so long as they are balanced in moderation (which is what I think you want).

3. Build diversity is still two Piece Borg + two Piece Other. OR all of something else + assimilated module.

If they added one item to each set so that all sets had four items the resulting combinations of gear that would grant a player a two item bonus from two different sets would be 576. This would result in six distinct two piece bonuses versus the three options we have currently.

For example: Having Super Conducting Phase Channels and the Tetryon Glider ability. Aegis 10% bonus and Magneto Plasma Relays etcetera.

4. Since the new sets are grind sets, it seems logical (and most expedicious) to simply add them to the grind. Much less time in development and much less time to implement. Perhaps add the hypothetical breen and Aegis consoles to their respective areas. IE: Craft the Aegis console and add the Breen console to a Deferi mission replay reward.
With the exception of the Mk XII items, I agree with you that the Omega/MACO/Honor Guard sets shouldn't be the mandatory gear for PvP (which I love to do actually). Now, if I must rely on pure random chance to get a particular set, then I do think that it should be legendary in terms of stats and abilities. That "advantage" gained needs to be carefully tempered with the likelihood of getting a complete set. It's my opinion that at 0.6% your gear should be shock and awe incarnate.

As it is, the difference between the Mk X, Mk XI and Mk XII is so slight it's a big let down.

I still believe that when compared to the new sets the old sets provide better bonuses for less effort. The increase on some stats from Mk X to Mk XI are literally two tenths of a point (IIRC). The stats on DS 9 and feedback here from many other diligent players seems to support that assertation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KlausWulfenbach View Post
I think, upon further reflection, that this basic conflict is endemic to MMOs.
100% true. Let's hope that when the balance pass happens, we get gear at Mk XI that is balanced all around with the existing gear. Maybe the next space/ground sets will be PvP grind gear (how cool would that be)!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
12-29-2011, 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph.B
I actually had to read it twice. So many people post knee jerk reactionary posts these days that when a supported logical opinion comes up it deserves equal consideration.
Having a reasonable and, hopefully, productive conversation has been quite enjoyable given the amount of rage floating around the forums these days.

Quote:
Logical reasons for having more consoles.
Actually, that makes a lot of sense. I would approve of adding a console to each of the existing sets

Side note:For comparison, I think that constant +1 to all power is the equivalent to +3 in the old numbers, so it offers a slightly bigger boost than a Mk XI blue power console(+3.8). The Borg set is almost the equivalent of a constant 0.52% per second hull heal. I know a Mk XI blue SIF Generator gives +35 hull heal, which, based on this chart, translates as a 0.35% per second heal. So I guess the borg one is more powerful, though it is a set bonus, not an item bonus. Balancing these will be hard.


Quote:
4. Since the new sets are grind sets, it seems logical (and most expedicious) to simply add them to the grind. Much less time in development and much less time to implement. Perhaps add the hypothetical breen and Aegis consoles to their respective areas. IE: Craft the Aegis console and add the Breen console to a Deferi mission replay reward.
That is probably the simplest method. Really, I think the best method would be to have the console as a mission reward, like Assimilated, but that would take more programming.

EDIT: Or make it cheap, like 5 or 7 EDCs. A kind of stepping stone into the full set. I just can't see 40 EDCs for a console.

Speaking of consoles, in order to preserve build diversity, the consoles might be less overwhelmingly superior than the borg console (the only console I can think of that is clearly superior to the borg is the +35% shield capacity console) but have stronger full set bonuses. That way everyone won't use all the consoles, the way they use the borg console now, but they will still be valuable.

Quote:
With the exception of the Mk XII items, I agree with you that the Omega/MACO/Honor Guard sets shouldn't be the mandatory gear for PvP (which I love to do actually). Now, if I must rely on pure random chance to get a particular set, then I do think that it should be legendary in terms of stats and abilities. That "advantage" gained needs to be carefully tempered with the likelihood of getting a complete set. It's my opinion that at 0.6% your gear should be shock and awe incarnate.
Raising the drop rate would solve this to both our satisfaction, I think, but then people would be done with these faster, which would result in even more bored players than we have now. Of course, as it stands, I wouldn't do an Elite STF for the gear anyway. Maybe if I was in an active fleet and we were looking for something challenging to do as a group (which, in all fairness, is basically what Elite STFs are for).

Quote:
I still believe that when compared to the new sets the old sets provide better bonuses for less effort.
Especially the Borg set, which is now easier for an inexperienced player to get (no more Cure ground!), though perhaps slightly slower for an expert. Though I do applaud them for keeping the old Borg set at a similar level of availability to what it was, simply on the grounds of user-friendlyness.

The Aegis set takes dilithium (assuming an efficient dilithium gathering rate of 1440/15 minutes), 54,450 dilithium (8.9 hours) to create. Leveling your crafting takes either zero, if you do entirely schematics, Mk III or below items and consumables, 28,050 dilithium (4.9 hours) if you stick to other low mark gear, or an estimate of 513,150 dilithium (89 hours) if you craft gear for yourself as you level up. Plus materials and at least a couple hours spent actually crafting.

That actually looks fairly competitive, since I estimated the Mk XI STF sets take between 20-30 hours to get.
Quote:
100% true. Let's hope that when the balance pass happens, we get gear at Mk XI that is balanced all around with the existing gear. Maybe the next space/ground sets will be PvP grind gear (how cool would that be)!
Some PvP focused gear would be good. Shield types that are better for PvP than for PvE, like Covariant, and a focus on weapon bonuses that are most valuable for PvP like [ACC]. Maybe some set bonuses to help clear annoying spam, or defeat other tactics that aggravate experienced PvPers. Heck, the mere existence of a set that counters annoying tactics discourages the use of that tactic, so the very existence of the gear set would improve the play quality for everyone!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
12-30-2011, 11:54 AM
are there any pics with the full sets of the maco and omega sets in space anywhere?
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:00 AM.