Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 121
12-09-2011, 11:45 AM
Hmm... I kind of like the "Game of Chance" atmosphere these sort of Grab Bags bring on. Of course, despite my adictive/collector personality, I have enough restraint to only buy a few C-Store Winter Packages (10). Depending on how the rest of the month goes, I might even buy another 5-10. I can afford a few more "lottery tickets."

Like others have said, when I go to Las Vegas, I may spend a couple bucks to gamble for fun, but I don't go crazy and "hurt" myself by spending too much. I'm also well aware that my spending will likely result in my winning nothing. I do it for the "thrill of the moment" - and that's the Entertainment Value of my money spent. If I actually win something, bonus.

To me, in my opinion, this is a form of gambling. And I feel bad for people who can't control themselves. For those people, may I recommend:
http://www.gamblersanonymous.org

I am not a lawyer, but wonder if these rules apply, particularlly the ones about the disclosure of the Odds of Winning...

California Department of Consumer Affairs
Rules For Operation of Contests and Sweepstakes
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/legal_guides/u-3.shtml

Are there any STO-playing lawyers that can better decipher/apply the above?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 122
12-09-2011, 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecapitaine View Post
So, it's okay if I give you a holiday bonus of 1% to your income then raise inflation across the board by 5% starting January 1, 2012?

Please, please don't take this as an attack against you, personally. Your posts have been some of the most level-headed, well-reasoned I've seen around these forums, lately. However, your comment demonstrates the point I've been trying to make. When taken in isolation or in the short-term, a lot of these changes seem minor or even beneficial. But they often presage a negative trend. Back when the Galaxy-X hit the C-Store a number of us sounded the alarm for what was to come and now we see it fulfilled. Ships are essentially exclusive to the store and have been getting more and more powerful (in comparison to what little has been offered for free). It's not just fluff anymore.

Now the introduction of lottery items which for now seems innocuous, but can quickly become a game-changer. Everyone likes free stuff but what happens when it's no longer free? What happens when they introduce a Q-Token grind in addition to everything else? When coveted items can only be gotten via lottery as I said before? Seems impossible? A year ago people were absolutely certain this game wouldn't go F2P but look where we are today. The biggest, most consistent complaint around here is lack of content and all I'm seeing are new ways to monetize everything.

These last two posts of yours are SPOT ON. Unfortunately, as with all of these PW changes, those who see it are in the minority, and those who refuse to see it are in the majority. Another sad fact is, even if most of us subscribers saw it and left because there's no end in sight, PW games have proven that there are enough impulse buyers with enough disposeable cash that Cryptic will never miss us.

All anyone here has to do is download ANY OTHER PW GAME and check out their microtransaction store. EVERYTHING is skewed against the customer and designed to promote additional purchases just to be able to enjoy the first purchase. Some examples:

Mounts - Some of the most epic mounts are only sold in a grab bag that has a % chance for each mount (you can be sure the epic mount is a fraction of a percent, and the commons are the vast majority of the payout). Then you have to buy upgrades for your mount to get it to it's "max" movement speed, then you have an in-game gold sink of "food" for your mount to keep it fed and happy.

Costumes - you buy a costume set piece by piece (a set consists of a minimum 3 pieces - shirt/blouse, skirt/pants, shoes, but may also include a hat, glasses, gloves, stockings, etc). Each piece of clothing comes randomly colored and requires several (5 - 17) pigments to color. You buy 10 packs of pigment to color your clothes, the appropriate number of pigments is consumed for the piece and your clothing is re-colored, HOWEVER, this recoloring is also random so getting a set of clothes to a matching color is usually a VERY EXPENSIVE endeavor.

So yeah, go ahead, reward PW/Cryptic by buying this blatant cash-grab item, but don't you dare be shocked and appalled when, some time in the future, you're randomly coloring your costumes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 123
12-09-2011, 11:58 AM
Ok, the only real complaint I have is that the frosted boots and snowballs are TEMPORARY! That is stupid,
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 124
12-09-2011, 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
And if he is monitoring his son every second he plays then he could obviously make sure he didnt buy things in the c-store that he didnt approve of, couldnt he? Again, you cant have it both ways. Either the son is mature enough to be playing with adult strangers(and therefore also mature enough for a simple lesson) or he's not. Either the son is being constantly monitored(and therefore unable to make purchases his father doesnt approve of) or he's not.
I didn't know some people are interested in his son's age. But here is little more detail.
His son was playing right next of my friend and of course my friend is monitoring him. His son was just clicking the icons almost randomly (He said so, but I guess not) but he was enjoying to use a PC and read the STO stories. He is enjoying reading difficult science words even if he doesn't understand quite sure. Of course my friend needed to explain all the time. So their pace of playing the game is extremely slow lol. They sometimes spent more than 2 hours to finish just 1 mission. Walking around the map and excite with little discovery. His son spent more than 1 and half years to become a VA. Because of STO, his son started to have interest to be a scientist. But he used to want to be a Power ranger or Pokemon before this game... So, he is that kind of age. But they loved STO that much.

I'm sure my friend could teach the risk of the item if he is little more older. And he even let him buy it. But for now, he needs to make sure every time if his son wants to purchase. His son didn't buy anything but I can imagine his wife would scream if my friend let him buy this... And Yes, he is not mature enough to play with other adult strangers. That's why they never done STF or so.

I played with my friend and his son last night before they leave. We went to the winter event and did race on the icy race truck. Well... we let his son win at the end but it was so fun playing together. I still think this game has lots of potential and have shiny things which other game doesn't have. However I think if developer team is proud to release the new ship, they could just simply say "Hey, we made a new ship. And you can purchase on C-store." instead of using Q's power to sell it. Some people may complain about this way but at least it's much better and fair. well, Q is not fair all the time...

But bottom line is this. I don't know how much money they can make from this item. 1 million? 2 millions? I don't know. But I can say criptic lose the same amount of confidence from customers which you guys spent lots of time and put so much effort to earn from us. And once if you lose it, it never comes back.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 125
12-09-2011, 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Reynevan
I didn't know some people are interested in his son's age. But here is little more detail.
His son was playing right next of my friend and of course my friend is monitoring him. His son was just clicking the icons almost randomly (He said so, but I guess not) but he was enjoying to use a PC and read the STO stories. He is enjoying reading difficult science words even if he doesn't understand quite sure. Of course my friend needed to explain all the time. So their pace of playing the game is extremely slow lol. They sometimes spent more than 2 hours to finish just 1 mission. Walking around the map and excite with little discovery. His son spent more than 1 and half years to become a VA. Because of STO, his son started to have interest to be a scientist. But he used to want to be a Power ranger or Pokemon before this game... So, he is that kind of age. But they loved STO that much.

I'm sure my friend could teach the risk of the item if he is little more older. And he even let him buy it. But for now, he needs to make sure every time if his son wants to purchase. His son didn't buy anything but I can imagine his wife would scream if my friend let him buy this... And Yes, he is not mature enough to play with other adult strangers. That's why they never done STF or so.

I played with my friend and his son last night before they leave. We went to the winter event and did race on the icy race truck. Well... we let his son win at the end but it was so fun playing together. I still think this game has lots of potential and have shiny things which other game doesn't have. However I think if developer team is proud to release the new ship, they could just simply say "Hey, we made a new ship. And you can purchase on C-store." instead of using Q's power to sell it. Some people may complain about this way but at least it's much better and fair. well, Q is not fair all the time...

But bottom line is this. I don't know how much money they can make from this item. 1 million? 2 millions? I don't know. But I can say criptic lose the same amount of confidence from customers which you guys spent lots of time and put so much effort to earn from us. And once if you lose it, it never comes back.
I'm sorry but I dont follow your logic. You say your friend has to monitor his son at all times and has to approve all of his purchases. If that is the case then what is the problem with the grab bag? Cant your friend just make sure his son doesnt buy it or is he unable to control him without making him quit the game he apparently enjoys and has inspired him to want to be a scientist?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 126
12-09-2011, 12:19 PM
im not hurtin for money, so i did a research test to see how much money it would take to get a chance to win the ship. Needless to say i spent close to 100 dollars on cstore points to do this test. Out of all those points that i got i still did not get a ship. Did the races, no ship. Im not complaining but i do think it is kinda messed up on the odds of getting ship when u spend a 100 bucks and dont get one. Just sayin.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 127
12-09-2011, 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
I'm sorry but I dont follow your logic. You say your friend has to monitor his son at all times and has to approve all of his purchases. If that is the case then what is the problem with the grab bag? Cant your friend just make sure his son doesnt buy it or is he unable to control him without making him quit the game he apparently enjoys and has inspired him to want to be a scientist?

The logic is obvious if you have a child. When the child asks for the grab bag so he can win the ship the father has to then begin explaining that he may not win the ship. From that point onwards the boy is introduced to the concept of gambling which the father did not want the child to be aware of at his age. It may be that they read the grab bag information together and it became apparent to the father that this was a gamble bag but by then it was too late, the child knew too and would have been disappointed to not be able to buy the gamble bag. I think that leaving the game because of this is a little excessive, but perhaps the father has seen the way it is becoming increasingly monetised and has decided that it is not suitable any more for his child. This is his right as a parent and I believe he has acted responsibly if a little too over zealously.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 128
12-09-2011, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainJimLitchfield
This is his right as a parent and I believe he has acted responsibly if a little too over zealously.
Of course it is. But if he did not think his son was old/mature enough for a simple explanation about gambling then he definitely wasnt mature enough to be playing a video game online with adult strangers in the first place. So it sounds like he actually made the right move, even though it was for the wrong reason and he failed to prepare his son for the next time he faced gambling in RL.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 129
12-09-2011, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Of course it is. But if he did not think his son was old/mature enough for a simple explanation about gambling then he definitely wasnt mature enough to be playing a video game online with adult strangers in the first place.
I'm sorry, I disagree with you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 130
12-09-2011, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainJimLitchfield
I'm sorry, I disagree with you.
You dont have to apologize for disagreeing with someone. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions even if they dont actually make sense
Reply

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