Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
12-12-2011, 06:55 AM
Rolling for loot is an abomination. Loot should be generated independently for each player, with no need to generate contention w/in the group.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
12-14-2011, 01:47 PM
there is nothing wrong about a "need, greed and pass" system.

I just would tweak it a little bit:

If you go "need", the item should be bound on pickup, maybe even with a reduced energy credit value

If you go "greed", everything stays the same...

If you go "pass", you should be awarded a re-roll for your next need-roll.



My simple opinion. Thats how I would handle it, and i guess, there would be less complaints about "auto-needers", even if it is for a MK9 shield array
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
12-15-2011, 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopard316
there is nothing wrong about a "need, greed and pass" system.

I just would tweak it a little bit:

If you go "need", the item should be bound on pickup, maybe even with a reduced energy credit value

If you go "greed", everything stays the same...

If you go "pass", you should be awarded a re-roll for your next need-roll.



My simple opinion. Thats how I would handle it, and i guess, there would be less complaints about "auto-needers", even if it is for a MK9 shield array
Why?

The system is ok as it is and its a common format most popular MMORPG use. The only thing I would like to see is the roll option popping up after the mission or fight is over. Like someone said stated here:

It sucks you are getting pounded by the Borg and that need or greed option suddenly appears.

Roll NEED - If you need it

Roll GREED - If you don't care whether or not you get the item (but would probably sell for EC if you did)

Roll PASS - If you don't want useless items

All they have to do is make it that the all the rolls are displayed at the end of a mission or at the end of combat.

The MAJOR issue is not the system itself but player respect & honor between each other (hard thing nowadays)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
12-15-2011, 01:21 AM
Me, personally, I always choose "Pass" unless there is an item that I actually have an immediate use for. I figure that its just good manners.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
12-15-2011, 01:43 AM
Back at the early days (or was it beta,.... hmm.. never mind), I looked at the log for Pass/Need/Greed scenarios.

Basically it seemed to work like this:

It's a /rolldice kinda action where:
  • Pass = 0
  • Greed = 1 - 100
  • Need 101 - 200

So... IF this is indeed the case, you basically enter a /rolldice system, where you automatically toss a 0 if you pass (hence loose all chance of getting the item), A random number between 1 and 100 if you greed and finally a random number between 101 and 200 if you need.
So whoever rolls the highest number gets the item.

Now obviously theres a system build in, that lets the system make sure that no two people roll the same number, so if you toss a 97 first, and i roll 97 after that, the system re-rolls untill I have a new number.

If everyone passes, the item dissapears (tested, and confirmed that).

SO... IF you as the only one roll "Need", you're sure to get the item. If everyone needs, chances are (almost) the same for all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
12-15-2011, 06:47 AM
When Playing STFs with Friends Greed, unless you Need. Playing with PuGs Need Everything.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
12-15-2011, 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naevius
Rolling for loot is an abomination. Loot should be generated independently for each player, with no need to generate contention w/in the group.
I agree, 100%.

A roll/pass system in place of need or greed would still be an improvement though, it causes too much friction. People complain a lot, but maybe the person does need that item they just rolled for? Maybe they don't understand how the system works (topics like this show there's a lot of confusion) or maybe they want it for an alt they have.

It's a bad system, I see no problem with pretending the greed button doesn't exist, unless you're playing in a group/fleet that has agreed otherwise.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
12-15-2011, 08:12 AM
Quote:
Why?
Plain and simple, cause it creates more frustration at the moment, then joy.

Quote:
The system is ok as it is and its a common format most popular MMORPG use.
We have always done it that way is no argument. It works if you agree to use the syste, I admit that, but at least in STFs you are forced to use it. Thats why it won't work perfect...

Quote:
The only thing I would like to see is the roll option popping up after the mission or fight is over. Like someone said stated here:
It sucks you are getting pounded by the Borg and that need or greed option suddenly appears.
Indeed, this can be annoying, but you can place it on your HUD whereever you want. Also sometimes there are items you can use in combat, like the collevtive stun grenade. So, i won't touch that.

Quote:
Roll NEED - If you need it

Roll GREED - If you don't care whether or not you get the item (but would probably sell for EC if you did)

Roll PASS - If you don't want useless items
This only works, if everybody agrees to do so.


Quote:
The MAJOR issue is not the system itself but player respect & honor between each other (hard thing nowadays)
No, that is not the major issue. The main issue is, that you are forced to use a system, that creates that much envy between players. Its perfect if you use a simple "Round Robin" system, and you don't know what everybody gets. Cause i am kind of pi**** off, when i recognize, that the mission leeacher, who does nothing at all to finish the job and camps at the spawn point just recieves a bonus data chip that was dropped by a fallen opponent. This is not good at all. Thats why the system needs to be reworked. Because you FORCE people to use it. And thats one major rule of gamedesign (I am long enough in that job, to know it):

!!!Don't force your players into something, if not necessary!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
12-15-2011, 09:15 AM
Oh thanks for the explanation
! I always thought that "Greed" was the one that gave you priority, and therefore avoided hitting it to so I didn't appear rude. Now I know that i was actually doing the opposite.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
12-15-2011, 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enlightenmentftw View Post
Oh thanks for the explanation
! I always thought that "Greed" was the one that gave you priority, and therefore avoided hitting it to so I didn't appear rude. Now I know that i was actually doing the opposite.
You're forgiven, since "Need" seems to be common practice theese days.
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