Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
12-12-2011, 09:52 AM
I don't think a GCD addresses the main issue. Nothing would prevent a single console from being so OP that people used only that.

I'd rather see all the new consoles have some built-in trade-off.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
12-12-2011, 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naevius
I don't think a GCD addresses the main issue. Nothing would prevent a single console from being so OP that people used only that.

I'd rather see all the new consoles have some built-in trade-off.
or seperated from the skill tree.....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
12-12-2011, 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naevius
I don't think a GCD addresses the main issue. Nothing would prevent a single console from being so OP that people used only that.
Anybody can handle an opponent using one console. There are ways to counter most every ability, it's when the consoles are stacked that the trouble starts.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
12-13-2011, 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naevius
I don't think a GCD addresses the main issue. Nothing would prevent a single console from being so OP that people used only that.

I'd rather see all the new consoles have some built-in trade-off.
Adding a GCD might not be a total solution, it sure would keep the game somewhat more controllable.

1 OP console = better then using 1 OP console + 5 others @ the same 30 seconds.

See what I mean?



What worries me is that these consoles are Pay2Win.
People paid for it, what is the chance of severely reducing (nerfing) these consoles without making the people who bought it furious? That awkward situation will happen every time now when a new console/ship is released.

They would have to come with a damn good reason to nerf them, perhaps in the sense of that the console was broken or used 'bad math' like Feedback pulse and put the problem on that?


What DVSaris said ^
If you look at it in a 1v1 perspective, 1 console is still controllable by an able PvP'er and the damage can be somewhat reduced to minimum. You can anticipate on it and control it, with 5 being used on you in a very short period or even instantly, there is just no way.

What roach said might be a good idea as well, add a additional skill tree for these P2W consoles so that you would have to share your skillpoints on order to skill them or something.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
12-13-2011, 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkfader1988

What roach said might be a good idea as well, add a additional skill tree for these P2W consoles so that you would have to share your skillpoints on order to skill them or something.
I actually meant make these consoles non-buffed by the skill tree completely. They should function as a seperate technolgy with no boosts from the Player skills.

It will render some pointless and others will function only as thier descriptions states.

Of course a sweep of all consoles will be needed to keep it balanced, so consoles like the Nadeon Detonator would not get boosted by Photonic based skills and The AMS console would not recieve boosts from Sensor related skills, etc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
12-14-2011, 11:02 AM
If (one of) the concerns of the Global Cooldown is that the Bird of Prey may be able to equip too many, maybe there should simply be a global cooldown by "associated ship class" for a console?

So an Escort and a Science console may work both on a BoP, but if you activate an Engineering console, all Science Consoles (but not the Engineering or Tactical) go on cooldown?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
12-14-2011, 12:07 PM
I think a lot of the griping comes from the BoP being able to equip practically every console. On the Fed side there are 2 or 3 consoles per class and they can only be equipped on that class. There aren't any ships that cross the classes. Imagine a Dreadnought being able to equip AMS and impulse booster and the PSW torpedo at the same time. I hope you see the issue there.

The other problem is that some of these consoles are ridiculously OP. An energy drain that can't be killed by energy weapons. An attack that locks your opponent into flying straight for 30+ seconds. A warp plasma with the added effects of SS. That's all way, way over the top.

Let's look at the Fed consoles in comparison.

The much hated AMS. It can only be carried by cruisers (which can't use SS) and is clearable with F1+Sci Team.
Cloak seeking torpedo. Useful only in very limited circumstances.
PSW torpedo. Can only be equipped on Sci ships, which lack the DPS to capitalize on PSW's stun.
Impulse Booster. A reusable deuterium burn. Really not a big deal.
Point Defense. Useful only in very limited circumstances.

I don't believe any of the Fed consoles are broken or OP in any way. The two I see being used most in PvP are AMS and impulse booster, neither of which seriously effect the outcome of the match.

However when you get a BoP... decloak, graviton pulse, aceton assimilators, quad cannon alpha, tricobalt nuke... and if you survived that they follow with scramble plasma and a cover shield then run away and cloak again... I hope you see the problem.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
12-14-2011, 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvsaris View Post
I think a lot of the griping comes from the BoP being able to equip practically every console. On the Fed side there are 2 or 3 consoles per class and they can only be equipped on that class. There aren't any ships that cross the classes. Imagine a Dreadnought being able to equip AMS and impulse booster and the PSW torpedo at the same time. I hope you see the issue there.

The other problem is that some of these consoles are ridiculously OP. An energy drain that can't be killed by energy weapons. An attack that locks your opponent into flying straight for 30+ seconds. A warp plasma with the added effects of SS. That's all way, way over the top.

Let's look at the Fed consoles in comparison.

The much hated AMS. It can only be carried by cruisers (which can't use SS) and is clearable with F1+Sci Team.
Cloak seeking torpedo. Useful only in very limited circumstances.
PSW torpedo. Can only be equipped on Sci ships, which lack the DPS to capitalize on PSW's stun.
Impulse Booster. A reusable deuterium burn. Really not a big deal.
Point Defense. Useful only in very limited circumstances.

I don't believe any of the Fed consoles are broken or OP in any way. The two I see being used most in PvP are AMS and impulse booster, neither of which seriously effect the outcome of the match.

However when you get a BoP... decloak, graviton pulse, aceton assimilators, quad cannon alpha, tricobalt nuke... and if you survived that they follow with scramble plasma and a cover shield then run away and cloak again... I hope you see the problem.
For the first several ranks of KDF the BoP is the only choice for science and is often the choice for Tac and Engineer as well, so that may explain why the consoles can be used upon them. That and possibly the jack-of-all-trades design of the BoP is a factor as well.

In a different topic, that many consoles on a BoP make it very fragile. I could see in a 1 vs 1 scenario this is bad but in a group versus group (after its known whom is stacking 4 consoles and two special weapons) shoot him first.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
12-14-2011, 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
For the first several ranks of KDF the BoP is the only choice for science and is often the choice for Tac and Engineer as well, so that may explain why the consoles can be used upon them.
You can have KDF to LG in a day... maybe two. KDF PvP below LG level is pointless... and nobody cares what ships you use while leveling. So that point is kinda moot.

Quote:
In a different topic, that many consoles on a BoP make it very fragile. I could see in a 1 vs 1 scenario this is bad but in a group versus group (after its known whom is stacking 4 consoles and two special weapons) shoot him first.
Sure you could shoot the guy. If you could move, if you could target him, oops you're dead.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
12-14-2011, 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvsaris View Post
I don't believe any of the Fed consoles are broken or OP in any way. The two I see being used most in PvP are AMS and impulse booster, neither of which seriously effect the outcome of the match.
Actually, AMS is a screwed up mess. Randomly you'll be unable to use any heals on your team (even though the tray powers aren't grayed out) and just like Scramble Sensors it steals Evasive Maneuvers. AMS is awful. I also don't have it to test, but I suspect those Fed consoles have their cool downs tied to the console itself and with no global cool down that leaves the door open for exploitation.

Quote:
However when you get a BoP... decloak, graviton pulse, aceton assimilators, quad cannon alpha, tricobalt nuke... and if you survived that they follow with scramble plasma and a cover shield then run away and cloak again... I hope you see the problem.
Aside from the inclusion of Quad Cannons (seriously chief, let 'em go, lol) this is the problem. This game is so dependent upon abilities it really becomes a case of whoever can bring the most toys wins. I BoP can abuse this incredibly flawed system most easily but they certainly aren't the problem in and of themselves.
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