Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
12-10-2011, 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitsuneRommel
I seriously doubt that.
Just so you know.

Quote:
Q: What are the chances of getting each item in the Red Holiday Gift?
A: While we are not sharing the actual chances for each item, the average value is about 115 Cryptic Points, assuming the Blue Holiday Gift has no direct value.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
12-10-2011, 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
You can also trade DL for C-points and buy it from the store like that. You can also buy the ship on the exchange. Its pretty expensive, but that doesnt change the fact that you have multiple ways of getting it without spending any real money.
I read through the laws governing sweepstakes and I do not think this has much of a chance of qualifying as a sweepstakes because that would require any member of the general public to be able to enter for free by say, mailing in a envelope or calling a phone number.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
12-10-2011, 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitsuneRommel
I seriously doubt that.
Look at the FAQ.

Quote:
Q: What are the chances of getting each item in the Red Holiday Gift?
A: While we are not sharing the actual chances for each item, the average value is about 115 Cryptic Points, assuming the Blue Holiday Gift has no direct value.
So technically they could even say they are 'giving' you a value of 15CP since you only pay 100 for the box.

I am *not* saying its right, I think its *wrong,* but given the way the laws are I'd say they covered their backside well in this case.

(Infact I think its being manipulative, I hate situations like this were bad practices escape the letter of the law but violate the spirit of good society and fair play. If this were my call to make I'd rather trust to a honest methods and good game design to bring paying players. And failing that Id rather go out of business than stoop to this.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
12-10-2011, 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Englebert
They will just claim that the contents of the present is what the customer is paying for and the ship is just a rare chance bonus item. You are getting something for the 100 CP or $1.25. I don't think it's worth it worth it and that's why I wont buy it. Companies are selling these around the world and in the US, so it's not a illegal lottery.
Simply because companies are selling them does not make it legal. If enough people complain to the State Attorney General, they will at least do an investigation into the legality. Obviously they are the only ones who can decide if the evidence merits pursuing a criminal case.

Ultimately, unless the case reaches at least the 9th circuit court or the California Supreme Court, it is really impossible to say whether or not it is legal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
12-10-2011, 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakarak
I read through the laws governing sweepstakes and I do not think this has much of a chance of qualifying as a sweepstakes because that would require any member of the general public to be able to enter for free by say, mailing in a envelope or calling a phone number.
It doesn't matter. They are saying "play our free race and get a free box. If you want, you buy a box with real money and you will get 15% more in goodies than you actually spend." Since a purchase is not required in order to win, the lottery or gambling arguement fails to hold up.

In fact, they have made it fairly easy to get multiple boxes without spending a dime and the items are tradable as long as you don't open the box! So not only do you get a free box, you can get multiple free boxes. No lottery I have ever seen gives away tickets.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
12-10-2011, 02:50 PM
One of my biggest issues is that one of the rewards you could get from a higher level box is a box from the lower tier. Really? why are people okay with this? You get a rare red box and the prize inside is the blue box..... that's a pretty cheap move i think.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
12-10-2011, 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakarak
Simply because companies are selling them does not make it legal. If enough people complain to the State Attorney General, they will at least do an investigation into the legality. Obviously they are the only ones who can decide if the evidence merits pursuing a criminal case.

Ultimately, unless the case reaches at least the 9th circuit court or the California Supreme Court, it is really impossible to say whether or not it is legal.
Because you don't like it doesn't make it illegal. I don't like it and that's why I wont buy any, I think it's wrong. This has been going on for years and the items inside have c-store value. So, they will just claim the junk you get is worth the 100 CP or the $1.25. The ship is only a rare bonus item.

If you think it's illegal report it but I really doubt anything will happen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
12-10-2011, 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commadore_Bob
It doesn't matter. They are saying "play our free race and get a free box. If you want, you buy a box with real money and you will get 15% more in goodies than you actually spend." Since a purchase is not required in order to win, the lottery or gambling arguement fails to hold up.
No, because then, by state law if the opportunity to win the advertised prize is open to people without a ticket fee, it must be defined as sweepstakes and would be required to disclose the following:

"Solicitations offering people in California the opportunity to participate in a sweepstakes must disclose the odds of receiving each prize offered."

(Business and Professions Code Sections17539)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
12-10-2011, 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith_Shadow
One of my biggest issues is that one of the rewards you could get from a higher level box is a box from the lower tier. Really? why are people okay with this? You get a rare red box and the prize inside is the blue box..... that's a pretty cheap move i think.
Again, I hate to point to the official rules, but the blue box is one of the special rewards.

Quote:
Q: Can you explain the Red Holiday Gift?
A: This item is special in that it has a chance to award valuable C-Store items. Each Red Holiday Gift will randomly contain ONE of the following:

A Blue Holiday Gift. This can be traded. This is a great source of extra Holiday Collectibles.
A 1-Hour Skill Point Boost C-Store item. This can be traded.
A package that can be opened to get an Acid Horta pet. This can be traded until it is opened. The pet is unique and you will not be able to open this if you already have an Acid Horta.
A package that can be opened to get a Crystal Horta pet. This can be traded until it is opened. The pet is unique and you will not be able to open this if you already have a Crystal Hora.
A package that can be opened to get an Exocomp pet (Federation Only). This can be traded until it is opened. It cannot be opened by a Klingon character even if traded to one. This pet is unique and you will not be able to open this if you already have an Exocomp.
A package that can be opened to get a Targ pet (Klingon Only). This can be traded until it is opened. It cannot be opened by a Federation character even if traded to one. This pet is unique and you will not be able to open this if you already have a Targ.
A package that can be opened to get a Gekli pet. This can be traded until it is opened. This pet is unique and you will not be able to open this if you already have a Gekli.
A package that can be opened to get a Holographic Tribble. This can be traded until it is opened. This item is unique and you will not be able to open this if you already have a Holographic Tribble.
A Duty Officer Pack (appropriate for Federation or Klingon). This can be traded until it is opened. The Duty Officers can be traded individually after it is opened.
An 8-Hour Skill Point Boost C-Store item. This can be traded.
A requisition for a unique purple quality Holographic Science Officer. This can be traded until it is opened. It cannot be opened by a character that already has this officer.
A package that can be opened to get a single Captured JemíHadar Attack Ship. This can be traded until it is opened. Opening it gives a single ship to the current character. See details below.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
12-10-2011, 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakarak
No, because then, by state law if the opportunity to win the advertised prize is open to people without a ticket fee, it must be defined as sweepstakes and would be required to disclose the following:

"Solicitations offering people in California the opportunity to participate in a sweepstakes must disclose the odds of receiving each prize offered."

(Business and Professions Code Sections17539)
Simple solution: "No player with a billing address originating from the State of California will be denied access to Q's Winter Wonderland as well as prohibited from buying gift boxes.
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