Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 221
01-24-2012, 06:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kostamojen View Post
I didn't say anything about your build.

You first implied 700-1000 damage per hit is a lot when it isn't, and they implied a 10 minute flat cure run was really fast, which it isn't.

But for anyone who replies in this thread especially with their own builds and other comments, expect criticism. Such is the way of things.
10 minutes for a PuG Cure run is fast. It's rare to see a decent group that has more than a couple of Escorts in there and even when there are a few escorts there's no guarantee they're any good.
It may not be fast when compared to a fleet team but PuGs rarely work as a team, they're just in the same instance.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 222
01-24-2012, 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonCapitan
Feel free to check out my current Defiant set up. I find it works great for Elite STFs.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=3436191
Replace Biofunction with your cloak and you have a DPS ship. Why run a tac retrofit and not use 5% damage bonus out of cloak?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 223
01-24-2012, 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairchilde
I hate to break the news, but if you are running a Defiant, you are there to do DPS. Biofunction monitors ONLY help with hull repair rate, something that a) your science officer/engineer officer teammates should be watching over and b) should never ever ever take a slot over your cloak/assimilated console.

50 crew, or 0 crew, your hull repair rate is negligible, and really if you are losing hull, toss yourself a HE.
Biofunction = the worse console for defiant. Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairchilde
Replace Biofunction with your cloak and you have a DPS ship. Why run a tac retrofit and not use 5% damage bonus out of cloak?
well agree to disagree. in an STF the cloak is only good once or twice, maybe 3 or 4 times in KA space. ive ran them with/without cloak, hazard emitter console instead of biofunction monitor, and the biofunction monitor is the only other science console useful. if you fly with a different setup, and it works, good for you. i fly with a biofunction monitor and rarely blow up, and in all honesty, rarely drop below 50% hull unless i get 1 shot. i see many an escort throw less dps and last much shorter times than i. so id suggest not trying to talk down on it and tell me subtly that "my build isnt right". maybe not for PvP, but for STF its a great build and im pretty sure since you dont use it, you wouldnt recognize it over the long run. maybe try it for 10-15 STFs before you make a judgement. ive changed mine around a number of times, including switching from ST 2 to TSS 2 after playing with it for a number of STF, not just 1 or 2.

if youre still going to think that having crew doesnt matter in a defiant, well thats your loss. the longer and more crew you have up the faster your hull regens. to help get max effect from any hull heals, your crew needs to be full on a defiant- biofunction helps the crew lost regen faster, meaning your hull can repair quicker. its really not that hard of a concept to understand.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 224
01-24-2012, 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmasteroz View Post
well agree to disagree. in an STF the cloak is only good once or twice, maybe 3 or 4 times in KA space. ive ran them with/without cloak, hazard emitter console instead of biofunction monitor, and the biofunction monitor is the only other science console useful. if you fly with a different setup, and it works, good for you. i fly with a biofunction monitor and rarely blow up, and in all honesty, rarely drop below 50% hull unless i get 1 shot. i see many an escort throw less dps and last much shorter times than i. so id suggest not trying to talk down on it and tell me subtly that "my build isnt right". maybe not for PvP, but for STF its a great build and im pretty sure since you dont use it, you wouldnt recognize it over the long run. maybe try it for 10-15 STFs before you make a judgement. ive changed mine around a number of times, including switching from ST 2 to TSS 2 after playing with it for a number of STF, not just 1 or 2.

if youre still going to think that having crew doesnt matter in a defiant, well thats your loss. the longer and more crew you have up the faster your hull regens. to help get max effect from any hull heals, your crew needs to be full on a defiant- biofunction helps the crew lost regen faster, meaning your hull can repair quicker. its really not that hard of a concept to understand.
Here are the better setups:

Sci slot- Borg Console + Point Defense Turret // Borg Console + Cloak // Borg Console + Anything else, If you aren't a tac, then throw a sensor + console in to make your sensor scan drop their DR further. Biofunction monitor is useless for a defiant. Even if you only use the cloak once, that's more DPS than you would be doing with a biofunction monitor in place of it. I also don't need to swap out science team 2 to realize TSS 2 is better, because you should have tac team 1 up 24/7, which leaves no room for science team.

This isn't opinion, this isn't based off of anecdotal evidence, it is a fact. Crew + Defiant = who cares. You perform as well doing your job (DPS) with zero crew as with 50. Your crew has zero zero ZERO to do with hull heals, ONLY natural repair rate. A hazard emitter will heal you for 500 with 0 crew or with 50, that depends on your emitters, not your crew.

Crew
Is
Useless
For
Defiants
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 225
01-24-2012, 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake81499 View Post
I just installed the Enhanced Plasma Manifols in my Fleet Escort. It made a pretty fair difference in shield and hull healing in a Cure and an Infected. So now I have the Borg Console and the Enhanced Plasma in the Science Consoles. I hated to spend 400 CP's to get it but so far in those two missions it worked. I did die once though when i was too close to an exploding cube. LOL
The Enhanced Plasma Manifold can be really useful, but it will put every battery on cooldown, so you have to time it or use Deuterium Surplus as a consumable. If you're looking for more consoles to happily spend even more C-Points take a look at the Point Defense System from the Thunderchild. With full tac buffs and APBeta this baby is a real killer not only against Probes but also Spheres and Transformers
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 226
01-24-2012, 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by decker999 View Post
The Enhanced Plasma Manifold can be really useful, but it will put every battery on cooldown, so you have to time it or use Deuterium Surplus as a consumable. If you're looking for more consoles to happily spend even more C-Points take a look at the Point Defense System from the Thunderchild. With full tac buffs and APBeta this baby is a real killer not only against Probes but also Spheres and Transformers
Yes I agree, I've always been a big fan of using the batteries, especially the weapons batteries. With the Escort setup I've built by mixing and matching the information in the thread I reallized i was hardly ever using the batteries. With the standard108/100 55/50 25/25 25/25 power settings my weapons, shields and so on just don't fall off enough to justify using the batteries Weapons alone almost never drops into the red while weapons damage sets at 1619 with a dps of 1079 on the heavy cannons. I even dropped EPtW and still pack a killer of a punch.

In PvP and Karrat the ship holds it's own VERY well against the klinks, I don't worry about the shiellds going down so much like I would have in my Advanced cruiser. My only deaths as I have said before seem to be from me not paying attention or having a klink sneek up from behind while I'm in a pack of spheres like the klinks are so well know to do.

I'm pleasently pleased.

And yes, I'm looking at the Point Defence. I want to give this setup a couple days before spending more CP.

Thanks
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 227
01-24-2012, 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Ultimatum
That was my gut feeling, but thanks for the input.

Has anyone discovered the sweet spots, so to speak, for building around diminishing returns?
Just to clarify, there are no diminishing returns on consoles.
Not even resistance consoles.

And since in your case you're talking about tactical consoles for boosting your damage, two of the same +15 consoles (as an example) will give +30. Four of the same will give +60.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 228
01-24-2012, 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairchilde
Here are the better setups:

Sci slot- Borg Console + Point Defense Turret // Borg Console + Cloak // Borg Console + Anything else, If you aren't a tac, then throw a sensor + console in to make your sensor scan drop their DR further. Biofunction monitor is useless for a defiant. Even if you only use the cloak once, that's more DPS than you would be doing with a biofunction monitor in place of it. I also don't need to swap out science team 2 to realize TSS 2 is better, because you should have tac team 1 up 24/7, which leaves no room for science team.

This isn't opinion, this isn't based off of anecdotal evidence, it is a fact. Crew + Defiant = who cares. You perform as well doing your job (DPS) with zero crew as with 50. Your crew has zero zero ZERO to do with hull heals, ONLY natural repair rate. A hazard emitter will heal you for 500 with 0 crew or with 50, that depends on your emitters, not your crew.

Crew
Is
Useless
For
Defiants
again, say what you will- the TSS change i still dont get the chunk shield repair that i like, however, using aux batteries and TSS 2 when i need it has become ok for me- my shields still go down far less with ST 2, but i do like the damage reduction that TSS 2 gives enough to keep it there and let me run TT 1 on a constant basis.

is point defense a universal console? i thought it was only a tactical console. if its universal, it could be worth a look. if not, then your argument has been rendered invalid.

"The Biofunction Monitor is a Ship Science Console that improves the recovery rate of the ship's crew, thus indirectly improving the ship's hull repair rate."

so yeah, crew does have a factor in hull repair. i didnt say HEAL like you are, i said REPAIR. meaning out of combat with a full crew your hull repairs faster than with no crew. so, keep trying to twist the meaning of my reason to keep the biofunction monitor on my ship to help with hull repairs. if i mistakenly said healing, then my bad. im talking about repair rate. which biofunction monitor DOES help with.

edit: you mean point defense system that comes with thunderchild and not the tac console from pre-orders im assuming. in that case, i would look into that. but not everyone is willing to drop x amount of cpoints on a thunderchild just to get a console for an STF. hence why i dont use it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 229
01-24-2012, 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ainu
Just to clarify, there are no diminishing returns on consoles.
Not even resistance consoles.

And since in your case you're talking about tactical consoles for boosting your damage, two of the same +15 consoles (as an example) will give +30. Four of the same will give +60.
That's some excellent info. Thank you for posting that.


I originally ran into what I thought at the time was diminishing returns when I was attempting to stack 4x copies of overwatch on a ground BOffs layout I was toying with, and not getting what I thought were the correct numbers.

So you've just cleared up a burning question for me, thanks again.



So...maybe I want 4 x AP MAG Consoles.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 230
01-24-2012, 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmasteroz View Post
again, say what you will- the TSS change i still dont get the chunk shield repair that i like, however, using aux batteries and TSS 2 when i need it has become ok for me- my shields still go down far less with ST 2, but i do like the damage reduction that TSS 2 gives enough to keep it there and let me run TT 1 on a constant basis.

is point defense a universal console? i thought it was only a tactical console. if its universal, it could be worth a look. if not, then your argument has been rendered invalid.

"The Biofunction Monitor is a Ship Science Console that improves the recovery rate of the ship's crew, thus indirectly improving the ship's hull repair rate."

so yeah, crew does have a factor in hull repair. i didnt say HEAL like you are, i said REPAIR. meaning out of combat with a full crew your hull repairs faster than with no crew. so, keep trying to twist the meaning of my reason to keep the biofunction monitor on my ship to help with hull repairs. if i mistakenly said healing, then my bad. im talking about repair rate. which biofunction monitor DOES help with.

edit: you mean point defense system that comes with thunderchild and not the tac console from pre-orders im assuming. in that case, i would look into that. but not everyone is willing to drop x amount of cpoints on a thunderchild just to get a console for an STF. hence why i dont use it.
If you have time to sit out of combat to repair your hull, you can cloak, which directly boosts your dps.
Point Defense is a universal console, as is the cloak, and both > a biofunction monitor.

That's my whole argument, I don't care if your syntax or word choice is poor, my message is pretty clear and concise, and you haven't brought forth any good evidence to the contrary.
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