Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
12-14-2011, 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kostamojen View Post
My only comment is with Rapid Fire/Scatter Volley 3 vs. Omega 3. You actually get higher weapon damage with Omega III and said cannon skills at level 2. I did some testing with this to confirm, and its actually quite a large difference in damage output from your weapons using the better attack pattern skill.
The problem that I have found with APO3 + CRF/CSV 2 is the long cooldown with omega. Yes, you can get more damage out of omega 3/csv 2, but then you are left with just CSV 2 or 1 by iteself for the next 2 rounds. It would be interesting to measure how much damage 3 rounds of attacking would go. I think over time, CSV 3 would do more. I use AP Beta a lot because the cooldown is much shorter (it the same as CSV). The comparison would be:

Round 1: CSV2 + APO3
Round 2: CSV 2 (APO3 on cooldown)
Round 3: CSV 2 (APO3 still on coodown)

or

Round 1: CSV3 + APB1
Round 2: CSV 2 (APB on cooldown)
Round 3: CSV3 + APB1
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
12-14-2011, 03:06 PM
I'd just like to add that there is a nice Mk XI Cov. Cap.x2 20% Plasma resist shield sold by the STF merchants that has been working well for me with the other three items of the Borg set. It is very easy to get as it only costs two rare borg salvage to get the requisition, and there really isn't anything else to spend the rare salvage on anyways.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
12-14-2011, 03:23 PM
Pretty simple. Borg shield.
I wouldnt know why you would not recommend this shield. 15% plasma resist, and the highest shield regen around. using 2 Emergency power to shields on a rotation has the highest shield uptime against borg. Its always been the best shield against borg. there is no real burst anyway so no problem if the capacity is somewhat lower.

Especially with the drains of the borg (Shield neutralizers) its even more valuable and Covariants have no real purpose here imo.



For the offensive;
Loads of hull debuffs, Beta etc. on Elite, since they have way more hull hitpoints.

Otherwise i would use omega to get loose of tractor beams.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
12-14-2011, 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkfader1988
Pretty simple. Borg shield.
I wouldnt know why you would not recommend this shield. 15% plasma resist, and the highest shield regen around. using 2 Emergency power to shields on a rotation has the highest shield uptime against borg. Its always been the best shield against borg. there is no real burst anyway so no problem if the capacity is somewhat lower.

Especially with the drains of the borg (Shield neutralizers) its even more valuable and Covariants have no real purpose here imo.



For the offensive;
Loads of hull debuffs, Beta etc. on Elite, since they have way more hull hitpoints.

Otherwise i would use omega to get loose of tractor beams.
What about the Omega Shield with 3 borg pieces?
The omega shield has over 1000 more shield hitpoints (at Mk XII) and only 5% less Plasma resist, and only 30 less shield regen points per 6 seconds.
You don't get the +5 to shields, but you do get the speed (escape) boost from Energy DMG.
You do still get the Borg set powers, except Tractor beam... which with it's recharge time makes that a negligible loss, IMO.

To qualify, I'm not saying it's better, just curious about people's thoughts on that setup vs. all borg set-up.

But to touch on the overall problem with these new sets: they are not THAT much better than the borg set. Especially when you consider how much more TIME is spent acquiring them. 15 STFs and 1 Story mission gets you the full Borg Set. It takes 60 STFs (without any luck Chip drops or Tech drops) to get the basic Mk X new set stuff.
It's clear that these news sets need love to make them better than he borg set, which I think is supposed to be the point. Right? The story fluf talks about how hard this gear is to make, only given out to proven captains, and is specifically designed for fighting Borg. OR, you can have this old stuff that's technically more effective in a lot of ways. O_o
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
12-15-2011, 01:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crooked_Wookie
Third, a question: I'm sure I'll take some heat for this. I know it's still a raw wound with a lot of people, but I have to ask. How would you adapt your builds above to the Jem'Hadar bug, with the universal boff slots and everything?

Obviously that gives your build a lot of potential flexibility, so I'm curious how you, personally, would make the most of that given your guidelines above.
You can run the bug like a Fleet Escort....

But I would contemplate running it with two lt. science and see what I could do with that. Maybe 2x transfer shield strengths, or 2x hazard emitters, or an extra tractor beam. Although you loose the 2nd engineering skill which is a pain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinumbar
The problem that I have found with APO3 + CRF/CSV 2 is the long cooldown with omega. Yes, you can get more damage out of omega 3/csv 2, but then you are left with just CSV 2 or 1 by iteself for the next 2 rounds. It would be interesting to measure how much damage 3 rounds of attacking would go. I think over time, CSV 3 would do more. I use AP Beta a lot because the cooldown is much shorter (it the same as CSV). The comparison would be:
Beta also has a shorter duration de-buff, so its a bit of a wash.

But honestly, if you find using a commander level cannon skill and a lt. commander attack pattern skill better, thats perfectly fine. I tried to leave the rare BO skills out of this build in order for the less experience folks (with less energy credits to spare) to be able to put something together easier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkfader1988
Pretty simple. Borg shield.
I wouldnt know why you would not recommend this shield. 15% plasma resist, and the highest shield regen around. using 2 Emergency power to shields on a rotation has the highest shield uptime against borg. Its always been the best shield against borg. there is no real burst anyway so no problem if the capacity is somewhat lower.
I find the regen shields no mattter how good they are, go down fast and you take huge hits to your hull. As an escort, thats bad news! So I tend not to recommend it.

If you find it works better in your own experience, thats fine. Shields are the least important thing really out of the rest of the set, the important thing is to get the 3x borg pieces so you get the random shield/hull heals!
Quote:
Originally Posted by framesplicer View Post
It's clear that these news sets need love to make them better than he borg set, which I think is supposed to be the point. Right?
The fact that you can get them in MK XII trim is really the thing that makes them "better".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
12-15-2011, 08:02 AM
If you've got a spare tact skill slot, fill it with attack pattern beta. This helps your team tremendously, especially when taking down large borg and those pesky nanite spheres.

What you must not do is equip is equip your escort with beams. I've seen escorts in Elite STF missions, fly about firing soley beams and the odd quantum torp. Suffice to say they did virtually nothing to the target and against a shielded one even less.

When it comes to STF it's time to get serious about your build, no room for warm "it's Trek" or "but I like it" builds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
12-15-2011, 09:21 AM
What an excellent guide and brilliant all round contributions. I've been playing for nearly a year and have spent most of that time as a Sci VA. I have a TAC VA now and I was really pleased too see my build is a very close match to yours and explains how I can do so much damage. I would love it if we could have a glossary of the abbreviations though, I know what most of them are but some I can't think of right away, perhaps there is one on this forum somewhere already.

One point, someone said TS is now more powerful than HY, is that TS3 v HY3? Wouldn't the damage be shared across multiple targets with TS which then just agro every bit of Borg kit to come and get you, wouldn't it be better to slaughter them one at a time really quickly and move on to the next rather than try to damage many targets in a longer time and have them all reap their revenge on you?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
12-15-2011, 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alendiak
What you must not do is equip is equip your escort with beams.
Oh man that is so wrong, what's the point? Beams are for cruisers, cannons all the way for escorts, totally agree.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
12-15-2011, 12:24 PM
Oh I did notice something interesting last night. The Jem'Hadar ship is the only escort to get a bonus to engine power (+5), which makes it uniquely suited to equip the quad phaser cannons off the Sao Paulo. I think those have a -10 energy power hit, which the Bug's inherent bonus cuts in half for you. Kind of a sweet little bonus.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
12-15-2011, 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainJimLitchfield
One point, someone said TS is now more powerful than HY, is that TS3 v HY3? Wouldn't the damage be shared across multiple targets with TS which then just agro every bit of Borg kit to come and get you, wouldn't it be better to slaughter them one at a time really quickly and move on to the next rather than try to damage many targets in a longer time and have them all reap their revenge on you?
Torpedo spread is IIRC 85% of a High Yield for each target. That means even if you are hitting just TWO targets you are being more efficient with your damage output. Taking the time to target one without the spread fire abilities will slow you down quite a bit, which is why most people are using the spread abilities now.

And with STF's, probably 75% of the time you are able to take advantage of hitting multiple targets. Even hitting TWO of the transfer nodes at once (or regen probes in cure) can really help (if you get on top of one, like 1km away, you can be in range for another one too). Plus, all the other random spawns in the area can get hit by your weapons too (the Raptors in Cure, the Spheres in Khitomer Accord, etc.).

You WILL get a lot of agro with this method, which is why the builds I suggest are so defensively-orientated, because you WILL need to be able to take damage from multiple targets and survive. I tend not to rely on team mates to help keep me healed, but even if just one person is randomly giving you heals it will keep you alive in the Normal level STF's no problem.

As for Torpedo Spread 3... I left that out of the builds on purpose. If you are lucky enough to get that skill on a BO, sure go ahead and use it. But right now TS3 BO's are 20,000,000+ on the Exchange.
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