Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
12-15-2011, 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kostamojen View Post
I'll check again, but I've been running around constantly swapping between the MACO, Aegis and Borg shields lately. I can't find any benefit of running the extra shield regeneration.

...<SNIP>...
The nice part about running high regen shields is that you are not at the complete mercy of your shield cooldowns to maintain shield defenses. Two EPTS instances are usually enough to keep your escort combat-capable without any extended downtimes for shield recovery. I used to use Covariant shields exclusively. Once I started playing with the Borg Shields, especially in PVP, I never looked back.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
12-15-2011, 06:48 PM
PVP is a completely different story, and I make no claims to any of this as being PVP worthy.

I also make no claims as being a "hard-math" person, someone who spends their time reading and going through all the numbers in the game.

What this thread about above all else, is gameplay "technique" for Escorts in STF's. I'm sure there are numerically better approaches, and possibly setups you might enjoy yourselves, but this thread is indeed about pointing people in the right direction and helping players be more effective in general.


HOWEVER, I really do want to see as much feedback and as many different layouts as possible. I'd like to add some more "unorthodox" builds to the second post soon
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
12-15-2011, 07:00 PM
Hey guys as I was saying earlier I run the Shield Emitter Amplifier (13% regeneration rate) as well as the Field Generator (35% capacity) with the borg shields try it. Using this combo with even a mid aux level makes your shields pop back up crazy fast. Try it
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
12-15-2011, 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kostamojen View Post
PVP is a completely different story, and I make no claims to any of this as being PVP worthy.

I also make no claims as being a "hard-math" person, someone who spends their time reading and going through all the numbers in the game.

What this thread about above all else, is gameplay "technique" for Escorts in STF's. I'm sure there are numerically better approaches, and possibly setups you might enjoy yourselves, but this thread is indeed about pointing people in the right direction and helping players be more effective in general.


HOWEVER, I really do want to see as much feedback and as many different layouts as possible. I'd like to add some more "unorthodox" builds to the second post soon
PVP is actually a great way to optimize your builds, especially for STF's. PVP serves as a crucible to burn away inefficient builds until you are left with only the best possibilities. It also teaches escort captains how to hit and run, using their superior mobility and firepower to burn down much more heavily shielded opponents without getting killed in the process.

With regards to STF's, choosing the right gear and BO-skills definitely makes a difference. If your escort only goes "pew-pew" and dies shortly afterwards, then its DPS will be far lower than an escort which keeps itself alive by doing more than just DPS. Yes, CSV and Torp-Spread are excellent choices, but they should be backed up with crowd control and damage mitigation to maximize STF completion odds, especially when PUG's are concerned.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
12-15-2011, 07:23 PM
I did some quick "hard math" on the 3 different shield types I'm testing.

Aegis - 118 regen, 10291 PER shield facing, 41164 total shield strength.
MACO MK XI - 152 regen, 9812 PER shield facing, 39248 total shield strength.
Borg - 246 regen, 7796 PER shield facing, 31184 total shield strength.

This shows why the Borg shields have a big issue... They have 10,000 LESS total shield output. This means while using Tactical team, you have 25% LESS total shields to spread across your shield facings.
This is why the Borg shields drop so fast!

I'll have to test out using a regen console with 2x epts to see how that works keeping the regen shields alive, but its obvious now looking at the math why the Borg shields haven't been holding up very well.

It also makes a STRONG case for using MK XI MACO shields. Not much less total shield output compared to the Aegis, and you get the extra resilient factor of absorbing 5% of the hits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shar487
It also teaches escort captains how to hit and run.
Which is exactly what NOT to do during STF's, and one of the main reasons I made this thread.

If you can't survive a certain situation for sure, then yes think about running (a good example is if you are solo-ing half of KA, and that big group of Probes and Spheres spawns from the gate after the other gate is destroyed... Best to run, cause you won't survive until the rest of the team comes to help). But the purpose of this thread is to build an Escort that can hold fast and pump out the DPS, in order to quickly take out primary targets.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
12-15-2011, 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kostamojen View Post
I did some quick "hard math" on the 3 different shield types I'm testing.

Aegis - 118 regen, 10291 PER shield facing, 41164 total shield strength.
MACO MK XI - 152 regen, 9812 PER shield facing, 39248 total shield strength.
Borg - 246 regen, 7796 PER shield facing, 31184 total shield strength.

This shows why the Borg shields have a big issue... They have 10,000 LESS total shield output. This means while using Tactical team, you have 25% LESS total shields to spread across your shield facings.
This is why the Borg shields drop so fast!

I'll have to test out using a regen console with 2x epts to see how that works keeping the regen shields alive, but its obvious now looking at the math why the Borg shields haven't been holding up very well.

It also makes a STRONG case for using MK XI MACO shields. Not much less total shield output compared to the Aegis, and you get the extra resilient factor of absorbing 5% of the hits.
Borg Shield Neutralizer is a flat shield drain per facing -- Tactical Team makes no difference whatsoever here. And no, Borg shields don't go down fast at all on my ship, so there must be more going on with your build than what was already mentioned.

I already mentioned that Borg shields are already known to have 24% less shield capacity in a prior post, so the above does not provide any new insight. However, they also have twice the recharge rate of Aegis Covariants across all 4 shield facings. Shields still recharge once every 6 seconds. Borg shields regenerate 984 shields accross all 4 facings per 6 seconds, or 164 shields / sec. Aegis recharge 478 / 6 sec, or 78.66 / sec. Factor in the Borg Shield regen procs, and the Borg shield wins in sustained combat. The only time the Aegis has an advantage is when your ship takes big damage via alpha strike. However, in elite STF's, ships take huge damage numbers in every fight, every second, thereby forcing the escort to constantly run away to recover more frequently. Elite Tactical Cubes do hit over 40k per shot at full power, so no shield will provide adequate protection as-is, even with tactical team up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kostamojen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shar487
It also teaches escort captains how to hit and run.
Which is exactly what NOT to do during STF's, and one of the main reasons I made this thread.

If you can't survive a certain situation for sure, then yes think about running (a good example is if you are solo-ing half of KA, and that big group of Probes and Spheres spawns from the gate after the other gate is destroyed... Best to run, cause you won't survive until the rest of the team comes to help). But the purpose of this thread is to build an Escort that can hold fast and pump out the DPS, in order to quickly take out primary targets.
Stationary camp-and-pew-pew basically reduces your ship's defense to zero, thereby increasing the damage taken per hit. This is perfectly fine in normal STF's where things don't hit hard, but in elite, survival is required if you do not want damaged systems to pile up and ultimately cripple your ship's ability to finish the elite STF. I guess our different STF difficulty preferences explains our divergent tactics.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
12-15-2011, 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shar487
And no, Borg shields don't go down fast at all on my ship, so there must be more going on with your build than what was already mentioned.
Factor in the Borg Shield regen procs, and the Borg shield wins in sustained combat.
I did more testing with the Borg shield, Field Generator, and regen console. Also with the Emergancy Power to Shield 1 and 2.

It is indeed a VERY good setup, and I'm going to add it as a "regen" build.

I still have issues with big hull damage hits with this setups, and times when the EPtS's aren't able to hold up for short periods allowing the shields to drop.

My question is, what power levels are you running?
Quote:
Stationary camp-and-pew-pew basically reduces your ship's defense to zero, thereby increasing the damage taken per hit. This is perfectly fine in normal STF's where things don't hit hard, but in elite, survival is required if you do not want damaged systems to pile up and ultimately cripple your ship's ability to finish the elite STF. I guess our different STF difficulty preferences explains our divergent tactics.
You don't have to be 100% stopped to point and pew. Even going reverse gives you the "accuracy" defense bonus.

However, that is just an accuracy defense bonus, not an actual resist bonus. So moving wont save you from the huge torpedo hits.

And yes, I do run Elites, mostly Infected space due to the failure possibility on the other two. I've also completed KA with the secondary a few times with specifc skilled groups of people rather than pug groups. I don't have any defensive concerns with my current build minus the tactical cube of course.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
12-15-2011, 10:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kostamojen View Post
I did more testing with the Borg shield, Field Generator, and regen console. Also with the Emergancy Power to Shield 1 and 2.

It is indeed a VERY good setup, and I'm going to add it as a "regen" build.

I still have issues with big hull damage hits with this setups, and times when the EPtS's aren't able to hold up for short periods allowing the shields to drop.

My question is, what power levels are you running?
The twin EPtS set-up usually works well in both PVP and PVE. I usually minimize big alpha-strike damage by maintaining 70+ defense at all times.

I typically run the following power-levels in attack mode:
Weapons - 125 / 100
Shields - 57 / 35
Impulse - 57 / 35
Aux - 51 / 30

When employing Aux-based abilities, I'll divert power to Aux with these settings:
Weapons - 63 / 25
Shields - 57 / 35
Impulse - 61 / 40
Aux - 113 / 100

I flip frequently between power-settings depending on what I need at the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kostamojen View Post
You don't have to be 100% stopped to point and pew. Even going reverse gives you the "accuracy" defense bonus.

However, that is just an accuracy defense bonus, not an actual resist bonus. So moving wont save you from the huge torpedo hits.

And yes, I do run Elites, mostly Infected space due to the failure possibility on the other two. I've also completed KA with the secondary a few times with specifc skilled groups of people rather than pug groups. I don't have any defensive concerns with my current build minus the tactical cube of course.
I run my ship at 26+ impulse speed at all times -- this is the sweet spot for maintaining 70+ defense rating. The slower you go, the lower your defense drops, and the greater the damage you take per hit. I also use Brace-For-Impact very often because of how well it cuts down enemy torpedo damage. Transfer Shield Strength also helps out a a lot, though Tractor-Repulsors are frequently swapped in when nanite spheres get too close.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
12-15-2011, 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shar487
I run my ship at 26+ impulse speed at all times -- this is the sweet spot for maintaining 70+ defense rating. The slower you go, the lower your defense drops, and the greater the damage you take per hit.
Small question, if you are flying around so quickly I presume you aren't the primary damage dealer in your STF?

The massive downside of constant high speed movement and turning means you constantly leave the 2km sweet spot for Canon damage as well as leaving the 45 degree firing arc...

So the defensive bonus's for moving are offset by the offensive bonus's for staying put, meaning that a target you aren't raining down pain with 100% of your damage is going to stay alive longer, meaning you have to defend against it longer (and also takes longer for the STF to complete).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
12-16-2011, 12:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kostamojen View Post
Small question, if you are flying around so quickly I presume you aren't the primary damage dealer in your STF?

The massive downside of constant high speed movement and turning means you constantly leave the 2km sweet spot for Canon damage as well as leaving the 45 degree firing arc...

So the defensive bonus's for moving are offset by the offensive bonus's for staying put, meaning that a target you aren't raining down pain with 100% of your damage is going to stay alive longer, meaning you have to defend against it longer (and also takes longer for the STF to complete).
My ship routinely grabs tac cube agro and lives through its onslaught, so that's a pretty big indicator about its relative damage output. The key to maximizing damage output is knowing when to go full auto without dying. Regarding exact numbers, there are no built-in stats-tracking for STF's yet, so your guess is as good as mine.

The escort's forward speed is only necessary until the elite tac-cube's energy levels are neutralized. After that, it's perfectly fine to engage it from a stationary point-blank position since its attacks will no longer 1-shot-kill you at that point. However, escorts are at the mercy of their team's damage mitigation builds if they bring none of their own. I routinely bring such skills to the table, and as a result, I can finish elite STF's without having to zerg-rush the cube.
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