Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 591
03-17-2012, 08:54 AM
I have to admit, I was very skeptical of the layouts people were proposing here.

Well, I'm a convert. Set up my Tac captain with cannons, a torpedo launcher and a dual beam bank on front, and all turrets on back... and I'm tearing through NPCs now. Especially when I hit Cannon Rapid Fire III, those turrets are insane.

I did, however, step down from my Tactical Retrofit to a Fleet Escort. My poor Retrofit was just too delicate to survive direct combat like at the end of "Boldly They Rode." I may drop some cash for a MVAE later and see if that's better, but my Maelstrom-class is doing very well on its own.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 592
03-17-2012, 01:37 PM
Hello! I'm looking for some help!

I'm running a MVAM.

It was all forward dual canons and rear turrets - so all energy weapons and AP damage (4 stacks of damaging consoles).

This did mean I had a redundent "1st slot" on one of my tac BOFFs.

Following this thread I've switched to 3 cannons front and a Quantum, with a Zero-Point console now inserted.

I'm struggling to find a decent Captain skill point build though - any suggestions out there?

Thanks!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 593
03-17-2012, 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cygone View Post
Is it the general consensus that for higher sustained DPS

HYT2 + CRF2, is better than CRF1 + HYT3
TS2 + CSV2, is better than CSV1 + TS3

These setups all use the Lt. and Lt. Cmd slots in Tac BOffs.
Personally, I just love Torp Spread 3. I don't care if I loose a little DPS... Torpedoes flying EVERYWHERE is just too entertaining
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 594
03-17-2012, 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluegrassGeek View Post
I have to admit, I was very skeptical of the layouts people were proposing here.

Well, I'm a convert. Set up my Tac captain with cannons, a torpedo launcher and a dual beam bank on front, and all turrets on back... and I'm tearing through NPCs now. Especially when I hit Cannon Rapid Fire III, those turrets are insane.

I did, however, step down from my Tactical Retrofit to a Fleet Escort. My poor Retrofit was just too delicate to survive direct combat like at the end of "Boldly They Rode." I may drop some cash for a MVAE later and see if that's better, but my Maelstrom-class is doing very well on its own.
Cannon Rapid Fire III is fun. I personally think the dual beam bank is a waste of space, especially if you've got CRF3. I run AP DHCx3 & a Quantum Torpedo Launcher with Cannon Scatter Volley 3.
I am also in a Tactical Retrofit and thinking about going to a fleet escort. I love my Defiant, but it does seem a little squishy when I'm the only one with much DPS. Does the Ensign Engineering slot make that much of a difference?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 595
03-17-2012, 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
I haven't done any parses with that configuration to give an opinion on which exactly does more DPS.

However, I think the general consensus is that torpedoes are terrible in terms of DPS. They are great for burst damage.
That's normally the case, except for a few caveats:

1) STFs have a lot of high HP targets that have no shields, or will be shield stripped and still take a bit of time to kill (transformers, gates, tac cubes).

2) Slotting 3x Projectile weapon DOFFs can be pretty amazing. Firing a Quantum Torpedo and then watching the cooldown timer sometimes go from 8 to 1...that's amazing.


I really don't know if anyone has parses with quantum torps and 3x very rare projectile weapon DOFFs, but I'd love to see it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 596
03-17-2012, 05:22 PM
[quote=USS_UltimatumI really don't know if anyone has parses with quantum torps and 3x very rare projectile weapon DOFFs, but I'd love to see it.[/QUOTE]

The original thread that suggested 3 rare DOFFs had two quant torps, 2 zero point modules, a regular dual cannon, and a dual beam bank. The guy who did that had output of a bit over 4k DPS (he linked to those to prove it).

This suggests a possible way to maximize a torpedo boat build that was not available before we could get essentially unlimited access to torpedo spread 3, and mate it to the older idea of two torpedo launchers and two zero point modules:

First, at the very least, having 1 to 3 purple torp DOFFs will certainly bring torp cooldowns to about as low as they can go, apperently so low that you should use qantum because photons can't go any faster. This could at least bring up the torpedo DPS of a regular one toredo launcher boat. The only drawback is you need 120 encrypted data to get them, still, if you are doing STF's enough, eventually you will have them.

However, Kostamojen tried a two torpedo build and reported lowered DPS. Possible reasons, maybe you NEED 3 purple torp DOFFs to make this work, or maybe quad cannons need engine power, or don't play well with regular dual cannons power or cooldown times. Possible ways around that, two regular dual cannons, a regular and a heavy dual cannon, two dual heavys, or even as the originator of the idea, one regular dual cannon and one dual beam bank. Problem, using attack pattern beta 3 and two scatter volley one to spread it around followed by two torp volley 3 now that they are all weakened (now available wheres they were not before), you don't have much in the way of slots for any beam attacks. It may be that the reason a two torp and two cannon build doesnt work as well is that too many shields are still up for the torps to get through, and the dual beam bank may be superior at bringing down shields due to things like overload or target shields. With skills taken up by the beta, scatter volleys, and torps spreads, plus the nesissary tac teams, you won't have skill room for those, and so must make due with cannon. One wonders if there is some way to get around two tac teams and still be survivable?

If, and I say IF a way can be found to use two quantum torpedoes and two other weapons up front (probably cannon of some kind to support the turrets in back and fit in the skills), supported by two zero point modules, now mated with the new idea of attack beta 3 spread by two scatter volley 1 followed by the two quantum torps firing with torpedo spread 3s accelerated by 3 purple torp DOFFs for a truly continuous torrent of torpedoes, we could have a killer new build, we could have what could be the first viable torpedo boat build.

The idea is, the cannon and turrets are there to spread beta 3 on the targets, and to beat down shields. the torpedoes are the new main DPS. So you want two launchers, two modules, and 3 purple torp DOFFs to maximize that. It represents a new idea which may need experimentation (to not lower cannon DPS too much) and possibly changed tactics.

And someday, maybe, when I get 3 purple DOFFs, I might try 4 torps up front, with spread 3, just to see what happens...

OK, I just like torpedoes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 597
03-18-2012, 12:31 AM
You might like torps.. but they have no penetration against shields... so four torps outside a team that is execting it would be daft...2 might work, but your DPS would be releatively low though your spike damage would be quite high... try testing it in some elite level Pve before you take it to an STF
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 598
03-18-2012, 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedofheat
You might like torps.. but they have no penetration against shields... so four torps outside a team that is execting it would be daft...2 might work, but your DPS would be releatively low though your spike damage would be quite high... try testing it in some elite level Pve before you take it to an STF
Well, in this thread http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=255981 we see this:
Rough DPS:
These numbers include damage dealt to shields:
Infected Elite Space PUG: 4,475 OUT-DPS http://www.mediafire.com/?be882dd77s9rrx3
Khitomer Accord Space Elite: 4,289 OUT-DPS http://www.mediafire.com/?xsysyl6i7x9a405

Without damage dealt to shields:
Infected Elite Space PUG: 4,027 OUT-DPS
Khitomer Accord Space Elite: 3,911 OUT-DPS

This was with a build with two torps up front, a regular dual cannon, and a dual beam. The method used is as so:
"The combination of two Quantum Torpedo Launcher MK XII, Torpedo High Yield III, and three actively equipped versions of a Very Rare Projectile Weapons Duty Officer almost guarantee a virtually continuous stream of Quantum Torpedoes at your target. This is huge in Elite STFs, specifically Khitomer Accord and Infected Space Elite because of the high amount of sustained hull damage output that this setup provides.

To proc your Torpedoes effectively, simply wait until one Torpedo fires, then use your Torpedo High Yield III ability. When the next Torpedo fires, the four Torpedoes from High Yield III will easily proc AT LEAST two of your Projectile Weapons Duty Officers. This means that the cooldown on your Torpedoes has just been reset and you're ready to fire another two Torpedoes, immediately, which will themselves likely proc at least two of your Duty Officer's abilities yet again. The end-effect is a stream of Quantum Torpedoes, one every approximately one and a half to two seconds, unless you're unlucky."

So it would appear that two torps supported by two zero point modules works well enough, giving adequate DPS overall, at least with that build and those tactics.

However, this was before the new idea of using beta 3, two scatter volley 1's to spread it around, and then two spread 3's to kill bunches of targets you just applied beta to. At the very least, using 3 purple torp DOFFs to beef up the torpedo DPS with one torpedo might improve overall DPS using that idea. If that idea can work with the above two torpedo and two zero point module idea, it could result in such high spike damage that your overall DPS could exceed the 4K DPS quoted. This is because you could whipe out targets in bunches. The idea is to take these two ideas and put them together into a new idea that is the best of both. If two torpedo launchers work, then using them in spread mode on bunches of targets that have had their resistance debuffed may be even better.

And the speculation about 4 torpedo launchers is based on the idea that with that many, your purple DOFFs will almost be guaranteed to proc, giving you maximum torpedo volume (at least 4 every 1 1/2 to 2 sec) all the time.You might be able to have them proc with only 2, or even one DOFF. Also, you might be able to drop shields by simply bludgeoning them to death with pure torpedo DPS (aided by rear turrets of course). It won't matter of torps can't go through shields if there are no shields left.

The possible problem, using purple DOFF's, if torpedoes fire sequentially, you may have so many torpedoes coming out the front that adding 1 or 2 more launchers will not increase the number of torpedos going downrange. If that is the case, all you are doing is losing cannon DPS by adding more launchers. The only way to test would involve first getting those purple DOFFs, and then adding launchers and see what the numbers are. You might also have to change tactics or other loadout, such as the original dual cannon plus dual beam idea.

It has the advantage of having never been tried...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 599
03-19-2012, 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bringram View Post
I am also in a Tactical Retrofit and thinking about going to a fleet escort. I love my Defiant, but it does seem a little squishy when I'm the only one with much DPS. Does the Ensign Engineering slot make that much of a difference?
Doesn't make a difference to me. I don't slot the skill.

From testing an all beam boat at ensign level, Target Engines Subsystem and Beam: Overload 1 was pretty underwhelming. In fact, in the all beam boat, I just spammed Fire At Will 3 and 2 the entire 1 on 1 PVP match.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 600
03-19-2012, 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilus1
One wonders if there is some way to get around two tac teams and still be survivable?
Yes this is possible in any Escort, but the FE is the easiest, you run 2 copies of EPtS1, (or EPtS1 & 2 for other Escorts), and use the following marco,

/bind space "GenSendMessage HUD_Root FirePhasers $$ +power_exec Distribute_Shields $$ + trayexecbytray # # $$ +trayexecbytray ##"

Where ## and ## are the locations in your action bars where the EPtS1s are located. This will give you good survivability and remove the need to constantly watch your UI for the CD on EPtS1
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