Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 131
12-27-2011, 09:12 AM
Yeah unfortunately we have to relearn the names of those consoles too. I use to know for Gravity wells and such that I'd grab Tomographics... now though? I have no idea what their called. Gravity something others. Just look in the descriptions, and it'll say what bonus they confer. (It still makes me sad, I have so many characters with really high quality Tomographics that have utterly no use for them now, and they're bound).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 132
12-27-2011, 09:17 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantheras View Post
Ok ,this is what i honestly think :
PvP in STO never was and most likely never will be balanced.What is "balance" in the first place ? Not easy to define it in a game like STO.
I still remember the neverending green diapper cruisers that were rotating 2 versions of RSP staying "invincible " forever with no effort at all.When the community of escorts/bops/raptors reacted
the response was something like "Learn to deal with it....you still have a 15 second window in between diappers ,dont u have enough dps ??....there are zillions of counters to RSP you just suck ...etc
Truth was that 15 sec -stacking RSP was OP introducing a great factor of inbalance between Cruisers and escorts.
Much like one must carry a ST or a PH to counter the use of TB or SS/AMS, now one must keep that FBP in mind as a counter to Alpha-strikes. As the nature of the game changes so do the rules of how to adapt to the nature of the game.


Quote:
Of all the newly introduced pay to win klingon Consoles the ONLY that i find OP (introducing inbalance ) is the aceton assimilator.That is not so much because of the console effect in and of itself but because contrary to ALL OTHER available consoles it lingers for 5 minutes and at the same time has a relatively short Cooldown.This means that assimilators are clusttering in battle and while one doesnt do nothing much 2 or more can totaly drain the energy levels of enemy.Add to that that they can only be destroyed with torpedoes/mines and there u have an ability that is indeed OP by all means.I could act the same way Cruiser pilots reacted back then with the RSP days and just say " Learn to deal with it...load torpedoes...have one of ur fleetmembers destroy all assimilators in the Arena etc..but that is not the way to go.Its an OP skill.Its damn wrong and should never be used in this way.
They fixed the Plasmodic leach (or at least its suppossed to be in tribble) so possibly they need to look at the Aceton Assimilator, but honestly in a team setting these should not be that deadly. Has anybody tried SS/AMS or JS on them?

Quote:
BUT...BUT ...Assimilators are just a piece of the imbalance -pvp ruining cake. Whats with fully specced feedback pulse 2 or 3 ?? The recent nerf was insufficient.FBP still produces way too much damage.
There is no counter unless you consider the stop firing a counter which is stupid.
Almost every sci ship uses feedback pulse,hell you now see fbp being used by Cruisers and escorts..why?Because obviously they know that even version 1 can do more damage than any other skill combined ..
Yeppers, FBP has become a little gizmo that just got useful again. I actually do stop firing though and switch target when its in use and the enemy is still at good health. If they are lwoer than me thgen I will attempt to burn them down. Sometimes its works as they can;t heal fast enough and sometimes it doesn't and I go boom.


Quote:
Let me add to fbp WARP PLASMA....uhh i see you ready to shout "NOOO,WP is fine "...Well NO it is NOT .
Its a damn OP skill .Why ? Because there is no hard counter.Hazard emitters only clears it when u have ESCAPE the cloud .If u re stuck in it ( and evasive are unvailable at the time) you re dead in the water.
Ap Omega gives u immunity ONLY as long as the skill is active.When Omega runs out EVEN IF YOU HAVE LEFT the damn cloud you are still being influenced by it.So all in all to effectively counter a single skill you may waste 3 precious skills ( Omega/HE/Evasive).What if u dont have Omega? or HE ? ...
I find it broken, not OP. Broken in that it reapplies after the HE is used to counter it. Other than that I am happy ( though I hated EWP for a long time) Make the counters reliable and the issue would go away. (until someone stacks those DOffs that give it a HOLD chance, then it could be a real deadly skill - but not as long as I have the option to counter it by build design)

Quote:
I could go on with the list of factors/skills that creates inbalance in pvp.This will never change because in the end i doubt that there will ever be CONSENSUS of fractions/ship types/caps in the way the various skills should be in order to obtain a balanced pvp gameplay.There will be in some major ,eye pinching inbalance issues but even then many times the course of treatment from the devs will further deteriorate instead of heal the patient.
PvP needs some love and balance that for sure but I do not think the new KDF consoles are that unbalancing factor and the upcomming fed consoles will be percieved as being just as unbalanced when they arrive.
I think the "balance" of PvP revolves around making sure the counters ingame work as oppossed to not.
Once the counters work properly then the only thing the players have to ***** about will be how they can't carry them all at the same time - which is the price of build design. We can't be jacks of all trades as well as masters of them too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 133 Yeah, bet the klinks love it
12-27-2011, 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBFLordKrueg View Post
I've got a T5 BoP, Sci Capt using the Plasmatic Leech, Assiton assimilator, Theta radiation vent and the Graviton Pulse. Got the Jump console too, but, swapped it for the Sci console to help flow regulators for better pwr drain.
GW3, TR2, FBP2, TB1, CRF1&2, ET1&2, THY2, EPSh1 and RSP2.

Don't worry, got a whole case of shoulder towels...enough for everybody who needs one...

Especially since the klink faction is way overpowered compared to Feds.. why not give them more crap?

Personally the in-balance between factions makes me not want to touch Ker'rat or Otha with a 10 foot pole.

And speaking of which now come you can't see other players on maps anymore? best you can see is team members.. and I seen one hostile on Otha before he uncloaked and pulsewaved me from behind and dropkicked me with no buffs for more than my fully speced ground toon can with all his buffs, this was a tac ground speced toon too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 134
12-27-2011, 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardhen View Post
Yeah, bet the klinks love it
We do!
I thoroughly enjoy the GP and SSj consoles in combat in Ker'rat. They in no way insure my victory or allow me to dominate gameplay, but they do add a touch of fun for us KDF much like the AMS and har'peng did for the feds for a while.

I feel no remorse that for the time being the tables turned and the KDF got a some outstanding Dev love in the ingenuity of these consoles.
They will eventually pass into being just as passe as the AMS and Har'peng (which I still see quite often being used fed) and will even lose the attention somewhat once the what ever new fed console come out that is deemed OP by our KDF eyes.

The complaint that the KDF is OP is an old and false one, even with the new consoles ingame. I still see plenty of smart feds do very well and dominate in Ker'rat.
Otha may be different as I have yet to play ground ingame, but I was unaware that the KDF where they only cloakers in ground combat that could use such a kit.
Maybe skill and experince is the highest factor in PvP combat? Knowing what works and how.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 135
12-27-2011, 09:33 AM
Factional balance wasn't that far off before. It's the toys, some of which are available to both sides, others not so much, that have caused this thing to spiral so far out of control. Small, carefully thought out adjustments and a little bit of attention could improve this mess exponentially.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 136
12-27-2011, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Especially since the klink faction is way overpowered compared to Feds.. why not give them more crap?

Personally the in-balance between factions makes me not want to touch Ker'rat or Otha with a 10 foot pole.

And speaking of which now come you can't see other players on maps anymore? best you can see is team members.. and I seen one hostile on Otha before he uncloaked and pulsewaved me from behind and dropkicked me with no buffs for more than my fully speced ground toon can with all his buffs, this was a tac ground speced toon too.
And we wouldn't want you within 10ft either...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 137
12-27-2011, 10:36 AM
yes, yes for now we, the Klingons get to be Batman..

And you , YOU the federation must play the Joker and scream in angry frustration

"Where does he get his wonderfull toys?"

((blame Silverhale sig picture.. I was inspired..)

Yes. KDF got a raft load of ships and consoles...

And if you go into a PvP match and see nothing but a grinning pack of Tier 5 Birds of Prey and a carrier then likely the best thing to to do is put your scacer between your nacels and kiss you fat hull goodby.

I allready have a couple fleet mates running T-5 BOP's running 4 console builds set up to specificly stop fed ships dead in thier tracks and chew through thier ships hull and shield with the two types of gas clouds, while sucking thier power dry. We're doing training films on "How to do it" and we're all learning how to play "Pass the Fed ball" so we dont burn everyones cooldowns at once.

One point has been made in all of this that the current situationis temporary. More ships and consoles will happen, and at some point we are going to see ships that are even larger with even more firepower.. The Ent-F and the KDF flagship when they appear will likely fit this catagory. We have T-5 plus ships now, and they're pretty nasty.. especially when you start sharing consoles between them (Yes a certain amount, small amout, but none the less there of P2W has happened) There are now sufficient KDF ship types and builds so that Fed players are no longer in a position to cookie cutter builds that are the super stars in PvP.
KFD now has counters.. at the moment superior counters for every nasty trick in the Fed play book. And no one knows what they will be faccing untill people start shooting.

Birds of Prey just got very very dangerous again. Moount them up with the KDF honor guard space set and they can once again break contact at will. The ability to affectivly cloak your entire team (as long as thier not to far away) temporarily..(sufficient to get battle cloak online), and the plus 1000 stealth means they're going to be undetectable untill they choose to uncloak and fight. The B'rel refit with its advanced battle cloak could end up being a total night mare as it over runs your ship and lays a nasty minefield in front of your nose along with warp plasma etc etc etc.

SO, its time for the fed to learn some new tricks as for now the Tactical initiitive passes to the KDF It'll come back, don't worry about that. And some PvP players are sufficiiiiiiently good that they'll survive this with their kill count intact. But just a note to everyone..

"Fair" fights are for the sports competitions. War is not about fair. Its about aggressivly rrruthlessly exploiting every advantage you have while minimizing any advantages the opposition has. The side that can do that best wins. In this game if the enemy throws sufficent firepower at you it really doesn't matter how many tricks you have. Your going down. With the Valemont shield exploit about to go byby PvP is about to get even more wild and wolly. I have faced far to many fed players that have used that exploit..that CHEAT, in PvP when I had them dead to rights.

If you want to be concerned with fair, then finding and REPORTING exploits like that so they get shut down will keep the fights fair.

In the second world war the allies had only one adavantages over the axis powers. They were able to out strip Germany, Italy, and Japan in the production of war material. In the Pacific the IJN frankly had better ships then the Aliied navies at the beginning of the war. If the US had not broken the Japaneese naval codes the war would have gone quite differently. It would have been the american carriers annihilated at Midway. ANd that would have likely resulted in an armeistes that strongly favored Japan.
In Europe Gernamy had a superior army with superior tactics and doctorine, and all told better material then the allies had. Allied equipment didn't hit parity untill 1943. In two area we had an adavantage. Germany never developed a truely heavy long range bomber, and thier fighter aircraft were decidedly shorter ranged then the late war aircraft of the allies. And we had one other minor but important advantage. The 2 /12 ton truck.. of which we had thousands. Allied armies rarely had supply issues as long as the trucks coould get through. The Panther, Tiger and King Tiger tanks were beasts.. but with fuel and ammo, they were useless. Germany has 1000's of aircraft.. the Allies 10's of Thousands.. Because the allies effectivly controlled the air, german armies could only safely move at night or in bad weather by 1944. Allied armies had no such restriction.

The whole point of this is simple. You use what you have. If there was persistant PvP zones in game right now, yes, Feds would loose a lot of indevidual fights. But would still control the battle zone. There are simply more Fed players. Over time the "Victory" would go to the Fed side. Right now it would be painfull to be a fed player in such a situation with the KDF having a small but noteworthy technological adavantage. KDF players, and ships have a "qualitive" advantage. Jeseph Stalin said it best "Quantity has a quality all its own" and he hasn't been the only one to state that through out history.

SO hang in there feddys. Things change. They always do. Some day this game will have REAL space war territorial type pvp instead of this idiot arena crud we have now. Alll this is currently good for is gradge matches and testing your build and your self. It's PvP.. but its not a Federation-Klingon war.
If the game "technology" were frozen in its current state right now, and true territoral PvP introduced the Feddys would have no trouble as a faction holding thier own. Just the shear numbers of Federation players
would see to that.

*sigh* I wonder if Maintainence is done? I'm tired of typing...

Khemaraa sends.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 138
12-27-2011, 01:22 PM
Well, I'm glad to see the absolute truth is finally acknowledged, also my friendly kli enemy, Roach, has written that the tables turned. So the KDF got a preferential treatment by the Devs, but the point is they have exaggerated a lot, never before the gameplay was so umbalanced in favour of a faction.
We all know the feds have on average more powerful starship but the klis ones have better turn rates and the outstanding battle cloak, not to mention the spam carrier, the Vo'quv.
Generally speaking the fight is like the Battle of the Atlantic when the U-Boats ambushed the allied naval convoys, if the feds stay together it's possible to resist the attack but the lone fed will be always vaporized.
And it's ok, I never complained about that because it's the strategy of the game and if a fed is angry is because he wish to be Kirk or Picard, but we are at Stol and not actors in the famous tv shows or films.
Now with the toy consoles the klis have it easy and the combat is become a simply target shooting for them.
I understand it's exciting and if the situation was reversed the feds would be excited too, but for the sake of good sportsmanship can we at least ask you to admit the KDF is now really OP?
For the good of the PVP community I hope all this is temporary and asap we feds will have a new starship, I mean the Enterprise F, or other consoles to get even and in case we'll be OP I'm sure all the best fed players will admit it!
By now we are suffering, we are getting angry, we are defeated, we are taunted, but we are here to stay, we fight against the odds, we try to adapt and we don't surrender, never!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 139
12-27-2011, 03:09 PM
I dueled a BoP last night, piloted by a friend of mine, and we usually split the score when we fight. He acknowledges me as one of the toughest opponents he duels regularly. He wanted me to see the full capabilities of his fully operational battle.... oops wrong IP. He wanted to show me what his consoled-out B'Rel-R could do. I rarely die to BoP's, individually, and usually make them pay for trying, but, in this case, I was completely unable to mount any kind of defence or counter-attack, in my normal build. So, I changed it up. Same effect. Couldn't turn, couldn't target, couldn't live. It was craziness. Even my friend admitted this, calling his ship "Crazy OP", but "extremely fun", but while he was having a blast, I was EXTREMELY frustrated. Long cooldowns don't mean anything when a BoP can pick and choose when to start the fight.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 140
12-27-2011, 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
Factional balance wasn't that far off before. It's the toys, some of which are available to both sides, others not so much, that have caused this thing to spiral so far out of control. Small, carefully thought out adjustments and a little bit of attention could improve this mess exponentially.
This is the answer^

Not these silly cries of, " the KDF are OP" that only seem to ring out when a fed dies in PvP.
First it was the Universal slots and Battle cloak, until the feds learned to adapt, got abilities of their own that are similair or got abilities that countered what ever advantage that was percieved too strong (like cloaking)
Then it was *****ing about Turn rate and mounting Cannons when the old Universal slots and BC cries went unheard.
Now its the toys that we have at the moment, while the feds have different toys, they don't find as fun.

Balance the toys that are causing the issues (not nerf them into uselessness like the Quad cannons or Isometric Charge console) and let the game go on as Stevehale above has said, but the cries of, " Unfair" from fed mouths fall with no small amount of hypocrisy on my deaf ears becuase I do remember the unfairness we KDF saw at the ablative Generator - only to be told get over it and adapt.
The Anti-matter Spread, to be told get over and adapt.
The Enhanced Plasma manifold, to be told get over it and adapt.
The Multi_vector Assualt mode escort, to be told get over it and adapt.
The Tachyon Detection field and Grid, to be told to get over it and adapt.
Bfaw that shoots cloaked vessels, to be told get over it and adapt.
and a slew of other little bugs that have given advantage to the feds over us, to be told get over it* and adapt.

Getting ****ed now because the tables have turned and for the moment the KDF has the upper hand is nothing but hypocrisy.

Fix the problems instead and stop trying to fix the blame, I say.
Adapt and get over it.

* My favorite Get over moment was reading the, " get over it, we outnumber you as players and deserve to be better and adapt" repsonse from over a year ago in these very forums.
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