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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
12-15-2011, 09:58 AM
[quote=Roach;3908817]
Quote:
Slightly flattened deepr fried frogs legs in an assortment of flavors..... mmmmmm. I could open a franchise and call it Gettin' Froggy or something more clever.
I wanted to do the male version of Hooters (called Goobers) but market testing got very poor responses (except in China or Japan, which is actually having something like it appear.)

true, too true in fact.
I know you Roach, you just wanted an excuse to walk around in "booty shorts'.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
12-15-2011, 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Even when the testing is/was ignored at least it would lessen the shock of ," OMG it full of OP" reactions we would see on the forums and allow those whom have tested and know the hopefully unbiased truth of how things work , to better help with controling the whine flare-ups and inflated inuendo with facts.
Just saying...
I'm starting to think Cryptic isn't well enough staffed, and this is one of the areas it has skimped on.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
12-15-2011, 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer View Post
I'm starting to think Cryptic isn't well enough staffed, and this is one of the areas it has skimped on.
I'm not with those who attribute cynical motives to the devs; I'm sure they are just stretched thin. My own company has known bugs we haven't fixed in 5 years because there are always higher priorities. But it would be nice to at least have a living 'known issues' document or something.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
12-15-2011, 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naevius
I'm not with those who attribute cynical motives to the devs; I'm sure they are just stretched thin. My own company has known bugs we haven't fixed in 5 years because there are always higher priorities. But it would be nice to at least have a living 'known issues' document or something.
This, exactly this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
12-15-2011, 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorticusCryptic
The PvP community is a harsh environment in any game, but especially here in STO. Perhaps a lack of Dev interaction historically has fueled this fire, but I tend to think it stems from the same competitive and adversarial nature that drives this type of player to want to do PvP in the first place.
I respectfully disagree. The core of it is, in my opinion, not the mentality of PvP players, but the pervasive nature of PvP issues.

Consider the following:
In PvE, if an episode mission is broken, I can just skip it. If the True Way ships in the Neutral Zone dailies become undefeateble due to some bug, I can go do the Breen dailies or Exploration instead. Sure, it sucks, but I have several other options available to me.

In contrast, if an ability becomes overpowered, or an exploit appears, the majority of players will use it in PvP to gain advantage. So if I want to PvP, these issues are unavoidable for me. As more and more people start taking advantage of them, eventually the option players take is "fight cheese with cheese", making PvP frustrating for EVERYONE. (And that's when PvPers start leaving the game.)

And the longer PvP issues are seemingly neglected, the more that frustration builds up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BorticusCryptic
And when faced with the opportunity to gather feedback during our "free hours," Cryptic Devs tend to shy away from dipping into these shark-infested waters simply because it's easier to get higher signal-to-noise ratio elsewhere...
...which only exacerbates the issue, leading to even more bile. Although honestly, PvP feedback shouldn't be a "free hours" activity for the devs. If Perfect World is indeed so serious about PvP, then Cryptic should be able to justify hiring someone whose job is mainly to work on PvP-related things. Barring that, the best thing you can do is to seek out the feedback from experienced number-crunching PvPers instead of dismissing it.

I can see how the "signal-to-noise ratio" can be a problem, but that can easily be circumvented: just make a post asking us to point you towards the testing data and analysis we've produced. We will gather the relevant posts for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BorticusCryptic
We're trying to help, and we all want to see STO get better. I don't want to see this community make it harder on themselves by continuing to focus on so much negativity. The more constructive and informative your feedback can be here, the better we'll all be in the end.
Our feedback usually does start out as constructive and informative. We've just had a bad experience with Cryptic for a long time now (there hasn't been anyone to really fill in the void snix left), and the more jaded we get, the sooner we "break down".
Our perception is that constructive feedback hasn't really been working out for us - the only consistently successful ways to get dev attention were:
1. a critical amount of outrage
2. pointing out the issue's adverse effect on PvE

The fact is, Cryptic lost the trust of the PvP community over the last year. But that trust can be regained if you guys show that you're willing to change the previous practice. For what it's worth, I really appreciate your involvement, Jeremy. Please keep it up if you can. Sure, many people are bitter at this point. Some will still be bitter for quite a while. But don't let that discourage you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
12-15-2011, 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
The fact is, Cryptic lost the trust of the PvP community over the last year. But that trust can be regained if you guys show that you're willing to change the previous practice. For what it's worth, I really appreciate your involvement, Jeremy. Please keep it up if you can. Sure, many people are bitter at this point. Some will still be bitter for quite a while. But don't let that discourage you.
This. My current ire shouldn't be held against others. The PvP community as a whole often seems to get tarnished with the same brush.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
12-15-2011, 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
Although honestly, PvP feedback shouldn't be a "free hours" activity for the devs.
That's not what I said. Gathering feedback, and posting on these forums, is not part of the job description and duties of the "in-the-trenches" Devs like myself, Geko, Heretic, Gozer, Goatshark, Kestrel or 99% of the others you see post here. In fact, I'm fairly sure that the only ones that are supposed to have an ongoing presence are the Community Reps like Branflakes. If you see any others posting here, we're doing so on our own time, above and beyond our core duties as developers.

So it's not PvP feedback that is a "free hours" activity. It's all feedback. We've got jobs to do, and can't always take the time to read our forums as much as we'd like to.

That said, t's something we love doing. But sometimes we need to go where our limited time will be best served, and that means checking in on the forums that contain the highest ratio of constructive feedback. That has, lately, not been the PvP community.

I'm hoping that a more vocal and obvious presence will turn that around some. Posts like those that BigRedJedi used to put up are a bajillionty times more useful than a simple complaint that some power or tactic or console is OP. The more numbers or details about something we can get, as well as numbers or analysis to back up any opinions you may have, the more likely we are to track down any sources of discontent, and address them in a timely manner.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
12-15-2011, 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer View Post

I know you Roach, you just wanted an excuse to walk around in "booty shorts'.
Who doesn't?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
12-15-2011, 12:18 PM
I'm going to step in here for just a second and say, As the host of Community Feedback and in direct correlation to the Voldy segment I helped on, if it was not for brave individuals who were willing to email us at Stoked@Jupiterbroadcasting.com or directly email me at Asmick@Jupiterforce.net we would not have had the jumping off point for which to bring this particular item to light on the show.

That being said, that was part my goal of taking over the community feedback segment was to help the part of the community who may have felt that their voice was not being heard. My team at Jupiter Force and STOked is willing able and dedicated to assisting to get these things out in the open in the best possible package so we can deliver the issues to the Devs complete with research and factual statistics with as much evidence as possible so they can go back and say ok we see it in practice with line by line how to replicate, now how can we fix it.

We thank you for your support and for watching the show, Please emails us if there is something more we can uncover in an investigative report. I will do my best to present that information to Crypitc and when I do we will let you know.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
12-15-2011, 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmick View Post
We thank you for your support and for watching the show, Please emails us if there is something more we can uncover in an investigative report. I will do my best to present that information to Crypitc and when I do we will let you know.
I like where this thread is going.
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