Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 141
12-14-2011, 12:52 PM
Originally Posted by Srafa View Post
This needs to be said again
Originally Posted by geofftillman View Post
People who post on this forum are a tiny minority of players.
And again.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 142
12-14-2011, 12:53 PM
Originally Posted by Sakarak
That is absolutely right, but there are some things to consider. National polls typically ask the opinion of about 1000 Americans and are usually accurate to less than 5%. One out of every 300 000 Americans is certainly a minority, but it is a very representative minority. The data is massaged of course, but produces accurate results.

In a true SRS, you want to make the process as random as possible. Clearly, people who post in the forums self-select and are more likely to be passionate about the game. However, without additional evidence, you have to assume that forum posters are a SRS as they are a subset of the population.

If Cryptic is concerned that the forums might not be a representative sample, they need to expand their sampling, but until they do, it is the closest thing to a SRS they have.

From the feedback in the forums, the vast majority of the opinions regarding these red box lottery tickets seems negative and unless they actually go out and collect more randomized evidence, they cannot just assume that the overwhelmingly negative feedback is not representative.
Except, they have the feedback in the forums and the feedback from the C-Point sales and trading they're seeing as a result; and if as many players truely hated this - they would NOT see such a massive upswing in C-Point sales - which is also a form of feedback (and one they care about more as it is directly related to their bottoom line.)

If you really hate the new Winter Package/Grab Bag paradigm - BON'T BUY THEM - as, when you do you ARE giving the most positive feedback you can with regard to seeing this type of paradigm continue and expand.

If no one was buying these you wouldn't have out teporary EP Mr. SDAangelo

That said, we are committed to doing future random delivery items that include ultra-rare prizes. It's not an "if" but a "how".


So far, the numbers show that this is pretty much how it is playing out. Around 40% of players who logged into STO at all in the past 5 days bought at least one Winter Package. Of the people who bought at least one, around 8% of those bought more than a casual number, and less than 1% really made a go for the starship
The bolded part where he gives some of the actuall C-Store sales metrics is the type of 'feedback' they are paying the most attention to and from that have an item that 40% of you logged in playerbase buys - and 8% (of that 40%) going overboard buying 'more than a casual number' - shows Cryptic the paradigm is accepted and profitable to the playerbase at large. That's the most obvious conclusion one vcan draw from the Feedback.

Putting that into numbers (and realize it's just a number pulled out of thin air for demonstration. The actual numbers could be higher or lower):

Lets say 100,000 players logged minto STO over the past 5 days. That means:

40,000 bought a 'casual amount' of 'Winter Packages' for 100CP ( roughly $1.25 U.S. a pop)

8% of those 40,000 players (3200) bought A LOT of those boxes 100CP ( roughly $1.25 U.S. a pop).

That translates to A LOT of income for Cryptic no matter how you slice it and the only thing you can draw from the above 'player feedback' is the last 5 days have been very profitable fopr Cryptic with regard to these 'Winter Package' item sales.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 143
12-14-2011, 12:56 PM
I just want to say that I like the idea of a Winter Event. I have nagged about it since the game launched as I was used to them from Champions Online. They have done many very fun events.

I also like the Winter Event map. I just wished there was something more event things to do on it. The two things there now is done in a few minutes and then we have to wait a day to do it again.

In Champions they tie the cooldown to the map and have the map instances on different cooldowns. That means more players will do the event together then it is now.

I like the rewards, although the frosted fog effects on the shoes, feels out of place.

The Defera Borg Invasion is also fun, but it's very rare and I'm usually sleeping or at work when they take place. So increasing the rotation on them would be nice. I would love to see more maps with these functions. Preferably on all major planets like Earth, Vulcan, Andoria, Tellar, Rigel, Betazed, Trill, Bajor, Cardassia, Qo'noS, Rura Pente to name a few. Where the map is a social zone that have these sort of three stage missions. With emphasis on missions as only one doesn't seem enough. The Lirpa battles on Vulcan, Mountain Climbing (I know it isn't possible to climb in this game but that is something you really should add asap as it's a basic humanoid function, and has been done with ropes and rocket boots in the IP)

The DOff system is the best thing that has been added to the game this year. No question about it.

Then again the dilithium debuckle and loss of VA ship-tokens have brought it down.

Putting species specific ships like the Gorn, Nausicaan and Orion ships only in the C-Store is an other mistake. They should be obtainable through the game and then ad one ore two ships in addition to them to the C-Store.

Removing the original Geometry for the Gorn is an other error in judgement. Many liked them and not the new one. The new one looks great in a Godzilla sort of way. The old one looked more TOS style Gorn which many like.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 144
12-14-2011, 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by Jonathan_Kent View Post
Not sure if lying or did not do the research.

The Duty officer system is excellent and has been quite well received, and its true the new ships are visually pleasing, but many people are still upset over a variety of so called 'improvements,' and the distinct lack of mission content.
  • STFs; drops are unfair and grindy, need/greed mentality fosters the opposite of teamwork and camraderie
  • Crafting is dead
  • +1 Ships are still an issue thats only been partly resolved
  • PVP balance non-existant
  • Still no new FE
  • Lotto box backlash
  • Skill changes without the space/ground split has produced some oddities
  • Continued use of exploits that it took a podcast episode to finally convince the devs existed.
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
We've seen clips from these missions including the new Bajor ground map on STOked weeks ago.

It's odd to say they're just getting started on it when we've already seen at least one new map from it nearly a couple of months ago.
Originally Posted by Darkthunder View Post
"With Season 5 released, the development team is now starting work on the Dominion Featured Episode series for February. They are still early in development, but we should have some early art and sneak peeks available in early January to share. "

I think I speak for all the "Content Drought" people around here, when I say GIVE ME A F---NG BREAK!!!!

As early as June 2011, word came down from DStahl that preliminary work was being done on the next feature episode arc, which at the time was slated for release "Shortly after Season 4 launch". Early July rolls around, Season 4 rolls out to Holodeck, with no new feature episodes in sight. Weeks go by, until August when Dstahl drops the bombshell that he was "Playtesting the FIRST new feature episode". For 2.5 months, the status of feature episodes lay in limbo, until mid-November when D'Angelo drops the news, that the next Feature Episode Arc will launch sometime after "Year 2" in February 2012.

So that means, we've been through this for the past 6 months, expecting the feature episodes to still be highly in development, and certainly ready for launch (at various points in time). And here comes the latest Dev Diary, basically stating that the status is back to "Square One", since they are still "early in development".

I realize this is a stretch, but at what point will the "Feature Episodes" ever return to it's original name which was WEEKLY episodes? DStahl even hinted at the possibility of having feature episode "arcs" appearing after each other, with no more than a couple of weeks break.

TL;DR: SWTOR, here I come! So long STO, you showed such promise and potential.
Originally Posted by Koppenflak
So at some point in the past, we can unequivocally say that Cryptic have lied to us.

D'Angelo's statement that work is only *now* proceeding on the Featured Series is in direct conflict with statements from Dan Stahl months ago.

Which way is it, Cryptic? Marketing can't be this transparent.

Thanks to Nuh for the link.
Originally Posted by jkstocbr
Hahahhahahahahahha - whatever. Too little too late
Originally Posted by Jonathan_Kent View Post
This will sound harsh but if the foot->mouth thing is going to happen every time there's one of these blogs then Cryptic needs to stop opening its mouth except to apologize, concede to at least some of our requests, or state the release of patch notes.
Originally Posted by nuh
I was wondering the same thing... and posts like this one make it all the more confusing. In it, D.Stahl mentions he already played the first episode of FE series 4, and implies the rest of the episodes require minor work for completion. That's back in July 2011.

Did they scrap all that work and start fresh? If so, What possible reason would they have for doing so?
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Its Cryptic's fault that a blatantly overpowered ship is not obtainable by any other means.
Originally Posted by Kelmor_Branon
^THIS!!!^ My thinking exactly.

And if Cryptic does this with the Odyssey-class, I will be P-I-S-S-E-D .
Originally Posted by SatansHell View Post
Geez, what is this EP doing? He is either completely incompetent or is ....Nope i'm going with incompetent.

As for the grab bag, I thank all the stupid people that spent $$$$ on making it viable for the devs to shaft us at every oppertunity...

The new FE series being just worked on probably = we decided to junk most of what we did before so we can make it grindy and as little fun as possible.
Pretty much what the new stf's and the not so new ground invasion missions are...
Originally Posted by captain Brown

To cryptic if you want to put a rare skin into the game in a random gamble box go right ahead more power to you I don't care. But this is not a skin its a unique ship with unique capability's that in the right hands put it ahead of its class. If you want something like that to be rare fine I can go with that. But put it in game not behind some limited time random box but behind real challenging game content where people have a chance to earn it.

There is a reason most games give you the ability to earn the most powerful items through content instead of random lottery wins. It works its successful it gives players something to strive for this random box however takes away from it.

As for hundreds being happy with it? I doubt that seriously of the bug ships I have encountered so far in combat very few are satisfied with it namely those with the skill to actually use it properly. Others have seemed to be embarrassed or worse at how easily they are destroyed in the new shiny what do you expect these players did not have to develop the skill levels needed they opened a box and poof the best escort stat wise in the game was awarded.

All items of power in a game should always be reasonably obtainable based off player ability not blind luck. I understand PWE has experience in the Asian MMO market where this kind of random distribution seems to not only work but be a real draw. STO is not however an Asian MMO this is the western market please keep this in mind.
Originally Posted by Zeuxidemus
The EP isn't even a real person... the EP is PWE. The guy on stoked was just a Cryptic Duty Officer... His proc is 5% chance to make you believe the BS cryptic and pwe are telling you. Possibly you can pet him once an hour for +5 dilithium too. But no he is competent he does not really fail any missions but he doesn't give any bonus's he's just a common or white one.
What they said
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 145
12-14-2011, 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
Hi folks,

When it comes to the Featured Episode series, I'm not sure what Dan might have said before I joined the team, but other than work on the Bajor social map, which appears in the series but is not just for the series, there was not much of anything existing for the Dominion series when I took over in September. Parts of Episode 1 were under construction, but it certainly wasn't anywhere near ready for release. And none of the developers were actively working on the series at the time either.

I made the decision that rather than start work on the series in early October and try to get it out in December, that with the free-to-play date in January, that it was better to target the series for the larger audience, and instead use the two months that we had to get as many fixes as we could into the game. We managed to fix many hundreds of bugs, which has really helped. We may not have gotten to your pet peeve bug yet, but we're still working on them.

Last week, we kicked off the actual development for the series and got the team members working on a schedule that should get the episodes done by the end of January. It takes about 2 months with full focus by the team to get a series put together.

I've been working hard to make the development team's progress pretty transparent. I don't come in posting constantly, but everything that is being worked on gets talked about in the Dev Blogs or shows up on the test servers within a relatively short time after it goes into real development. I try not to post when something is merely on the schedule, since that is very much subject to change.

In any case, I'm sorry that anyone had the impression that the series was further along that it is. I certainly didn't try to give that impression at any time since I took over the EP job.

When it comes to the Red Holiday Gift / Winter Package, we are fully aware that some people are not happy with how this first attempt at a random delivery with an ultra-rare prize came out. We are putting a lot of effort into analyzing what is and is not working well, and how you all feel about it. It's clear that we did not get everything right with this attempt, and we're going to do our best to learn from it.

That said, we are committed to doing future random delivery items that include ultra-rare prizes. It's not an "if" but a "how".

The goal with the current one was to make the Blue Present prize (which includes Holiday Collectibles and a Blue or Purple piece of gear) a very desirable prize for people who want to spend their 400 point stipend or otherwise spend a few dollars getting some fun stuff... and maybe get something cooler. Then we made some middle-tier prizes that are fun things to have, mostly for those people who buy a few for the holiday event to get something fun, like a Horta pet. And finally, we have the rare prizes, which were meant to be something cool and amazing for people to stumble upon. But it was inevitable that some small number of people would try single-mindedly for the rare prize.

So far, the numbers show that this is pretty much how it is playing out. Around 40% of players who logged into STO at all in the past 5 days bought at least one Winter Package. Of the people who bought at least one, around 8% of those bought more than a casual number, and less than 1% really made a go for the starship.

The starships definitely are spread out across all levels of buyers, and the overwhelming feedback we're getting is that people really like the Winter Package and how it was put together. It's also clear that there are sub-groups who don't like it for various reasons. We're going to learn both from what people liked and didn't like before we try this again.

In any case, you should not expect anything to be changed with the odds on the starship prize in this current offering. To do so would be unfair to the people who invested in getting the starship.

Overall, I'm sorry that I'm not posting as much as you would like, or even as much as I would like. The hours are long already (I am nearly 15 hours into my work day today), so finding time to post is hard. Please do work through our new community manager when you feel something needs attention. He's making sure your concerns, issues, and reports make it to the team. I'm definitely lurking on the forums, and 'll try to post when I can.

Stephen D'Angelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online
First off saying you have done something does not mean anything with out proof. To be honest I do not care how many hours you say you do or do not work. What I do care about is what I do an do not get for my money. If certain ships are only gong to be in a grab bag then I will be taking my money else where. I am not a fan of the gambling idea to get an item that you cannot get else where.

This game has been is a sorry state for too long and it was your decision cut the Klingon faction even more. Even as F2P is about to be launched and almost 2 years after the initial launch of the game the is NO COMPLETE SECOND FACTION!! Klingons were being worked on and updated then you became EP an thought it would be a good idea to relaunch without a complete second faction even after the first launch people had issues with it.

I do not like how you have handled things. I do not like the fact that you use paying members to get F2P ready and gave the Holodeck no content during that time.

Originally Posted by jkstocbr
Where are you getting this feedback from? I haven't seen an polls go up for a long time, and well, the forums are not generally that positive. Where can I provide my feedback?
Inquiring minds would like to know.

Originally Posted by Fastback64 View Post
I didn't join this game to play the lottery. If I wanted to gamble I'd play Hoyle Casino (or go to Vegas). I joined this game to fly starships and command a crew. As a Star Trek fan and someone who has devoted lots of time and money into this game, I feel duped by you all creating another ship I'd like to fly that is nearly impossible to acquire. If this were a ganking game I could almost understand this, but it's not...

Before you try any more bright ideas, try getting to know your customers first.
You should take this to heart D'Angelo.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 146
12-14-2011, 01:59 PM
I've said it before, I'll say it again: they DID get to know their customers, and they ARE listening to feedback. They're just not listening to anything you're saying, because the wallets of the many have spoken a lot louder than the angry postings of the few.

Trust me: if the majority of players - and if you think the people screaming on the forums are actually a majority you're sadly mistaken - ACTUALLY objected to the way this was handled and put their money where their mouths are and refused to put money into the gift boxes, the 'rare ship lottery' would go away so fast it would make your head spin.

Judging by the fact that they've very emphatically stated - before this event has even concluded - that it WILL happen again ("how, not if") it's clear that however poorly they may have handled it, it made them a ton of money. And frankly kudos to them for that. Figuring out how to part people from their money without subscription fees is the FTP model. Hate on it all you want, but whoever came up with the gift box idea probably is getting a nice holiday bonus.

The angry raging is honestly a bit fruitless. If the gift boxes are a success, the idea is going to stick around. If the majority of players actually objected to them, they wouldn't have spent enough money on them to make the idea worthwhile, and the idea would be gone. There is still how long left on the holiday event and they're already crystal clear that the gift box concept will be back.

Money speaks louder than words.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 147
12-14-2011, 01:59 PM
I'll be brief here:

1) I am in no way averse to the grab bag idea in general.

2) rather than mk XI or X perhaps a better "carrot" would be to offer MK XII for va's

3) the ship is a bit overpowered, if it were comparable to the Defiant in consoles, and then have EITHER the turn or hull buff (but not both) that would be better.

4) this would be an excellent method to introduce either new ship skins (decal sets, hull colors, or even a whole new skin all together) or ship effect items (not consoles, but items like the holoemitters that give a visual effect rather than a combat-effect.) Or costume unlocks like ties, watches, visors, borg parts etc. Heck, have some fun with it! Purists will whine about it, but I love to collect vanity pets and silly rare things in mmos.

Anywat, my two drachmas....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 148
12-14-2011, 02:15 PM
i hate the winter package. still buying them due to the fact i want the ship badly. im a sucker for ships. still hate how i can get the ship. still buy the lotto. so yeah i would like to know how you think people like this winter package crap.

just bought 5 packages......3 tribbles in a row. really????????? i dident need them to start with since i was able to claim them per toon. atleast give me something i need even if you dont want me to have a ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 149
12-14-2011, 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by CivilPhil
What I wrote was meant as constructive feedback about purchasing boxes only to find contents were not as described. Specifically that Red boxes were morphing into lower quality blue boxes, at quite an alarming rate, when getting a blue box from a red was never mentioned in the original post.

You also glossed over the 2nd point that it was mentioned that Red boxes can be obtained in-game by participating in the race. I was pointing out that over 20 races I have yet to see a red box, so this to me is again false advertising.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 150
12-14-2011, 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by sdangelo View Post
We are putting a lot of effort into analyzing what is and is not working well, and how you all feel about it. It's clear that we did not get everything right with this attempt, and we're going to do our best to learn from it.
if this lottery non-sense IS to be part of the future of this game, you need to add more to it to make it feel LESS like a dividing factor to the community.

Additionally, you should consider altering the chance math. Start with a very low chance, but increase the odds as your paying customers buy into the "contest." Maybe lessen the chances, if you have already received said ultra-rare item. Nothing stings more than spending several thousand c-points to get nothing, but hearing a fleet mate got 3 from opening a stipend's worth.
This will help 2 things: 1) you will generate more revenue and 2) lessen the rage issue for those that buy in full boar and get nothing. Yes, I'm part of that second option and I can say without pause that I will likely be cautious with ANY future Cstore purchases. It has also caused me to question further subscription and eliminated the idea of buying a lifetime subscription.

Consider having more unique items in these contests. They are not necessarily as prized as the Bug ship, but are still new/different enough to want to get. As someone who referred a person to the game and got the Photonic Tribble and Officer for that- it was disappointing to see those items in the prizes. Further, the endless amount of useless fluff pets was discouraging. You get your set and then you get some for alts, and you still have too many to deal with. You try to sell them and they are worth pennies.
So consider also allowing some "trade up" program with the stuff that is more common and less prized. Something like: turn in 3 Gelki, 2 horta, and a Bajoran Dingleberry for a Blue box, etc.

Like I've said in other threads and echoing others, I KNEW what I was doing when I bought "the max amount of c-store purchases in a month" and spent it all on trying to get the ship. I knew there was a chance I wouldn't get it- and I didn't. I'm not holding Cryptic responsible for my decisions, nor do I want anything in return for what others might call a poor decision. But I AM suggesting is to come up with a way for people like me to feel less gipped. And no, that doesn't mean "if you spend X amount, you WILL get the ultra rare prize," but it does mean give me enough other stuff and systems to make me NOT getting that ultra-rare less painful. (chance for circular argument: high)
Sure, that's entirely subjective, but I feel if they make an attempt it will soften the anger to future contests.

Additionally, Cryptic claims that people are enjoying the winter event. Now, I'm not dismissing that, but let's be honest- there is about 3mins of content you can digest from this event. Once a day, 3mins of content (including loading time.) PLEASE consider more stuff to do in these future events. PLEASE consider more ways than 1 daily mission to get a chance (without purchase) to win these ultra-rares. Make it an EVENT, not a 7-11 pit-stop. 1 Daily race, 6+ snowmen statues, and some really mediocre holiday themed items (scarf unlock, ice boots, and holiday tribble) doesn't make an event. If it does for you guys- please reconsider your internal definition of "event." This was "meh" at best.

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