Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 931
01-07-2012, 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piwright42 View Post
Had the same problem and I have to admit it is not exactly gone but I did as Hevach, (hope I got the name right sorry if I did not), told me to put more into the low level ground skills and this would magically leave more for T5 space skills. What do ya know? He was right. Got at least three T5 skills at 9 now.

Oh and with diminishing returns the average is closer to three or four than six. I use three for most all skills that I want but do not really need, 6 for what I really want to train and eight, (at least in future builds) for what I want to specialize in. That rule of thumb seems to work real well with the new diminishing returns. Maxing at 8 would have freed up three points for Aux spec which would help my TSS.
Wait at what rank of lvl will I be able to get back the amount of abilities I lost? Are you saying I can get it back? As of right now I lost all my next rank space abilities and am really gimp now since My build was a glass cannon build, no defense...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 932 Path to F2P Dev Blog #24
01-07-2012, 01:07 AM
Quote:
We also split space and ground skill points. The ratio is 75% Space/25% Ground, with a small percentage of the points that can be spent in either ground or space. For example, if you have 10,000 Skill Points, you will be able to spend up to 7,500 in Space skills and 2,500 on Ground skills.

This change is being made to help prevent players from putting all their points into space skills, and then not being effective on the ground (or vice versa). It also helps make PvP more accessible to casual players by leveling the skill point playing field -- players who split their skills because they play ground and space could not compete with a player who put all their points into space or ground alone.
Quote:
This change is being made to help prevent players from putting all their points into space skills, and then not being effective on the ground (or vice versa)

I was fine playing on the ground as there is the ability to "adjust" mission difficulty if necessary. As for pvp, If I chose to put all my points in space than I accepted the fact that I would not be as powerful on the ground.. That is a fair trade.

Quote:
. It also helps make PvP more accessible to casual players by leveling the skill point playing field
So just because I put all my points into space means I am not a casual player? I am a casual player and if I wanted to split my points up I would have.. This change is not for casual players its a nerf to casual players and a gut to my play style and options.

Quote:
players who split their skills because they play ground and space could not compete with a player who put all their points into space or ground alone.
First of all, I wasn't trying to "compete" with them and yes I could compete, it was just more of a challenge with a jack of trades build as it is in ANY game...

Second of all, people had the 'OPTION" of making another character that had a better build for "competing" as you say. But now I do "NOT" have the "OPTION" to make my build with the skill split. I can't just make another character to put all my points into space.. See, they had no limitation as they had the freedom to make another build but I can't just make another build now because you are forcing it on everyone.

What you did with the split makes no sense, I could just as easily say you should make people choose between space/ground rather than making other people split. See it makes no sense either way..

Before you could play a jack of trades or space/ground. But my main point is you are cutting out my play style in favor of yours because you want to be jack of trades and do everything at the same time. I see the game going in the direction of less and less choice and more cookie cutter builds, cryptic is supposed to be all about character diversity.. its kinda like your trade mark.. but this the kinda direction the first star wars online game went and look what happened to them.

When I play my jack of trades character I expect people to be better that specialize in what they do, but I am able to juggle missions better than them. When I play my space build I expect to have more challenging ground combat.


I have an idea that would fix everything, just make ground and space have different skill pools, that way everyone can have their space build and ground build but add more ability's in ground and space so they choose between different builds and not choose between space/ground.

Doing it this way you don't screw PvE people over for PvP people.

So it's better for everyone. We could have more diversity and different builds and you would not lack in either ground or space.. And I could have my space build back so I am not gimp in PvE...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 933
01-07-2012, 01:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlore View Post
Wait at what rank of lvl will I be able to get back the amount of abilities I lost? Are you saying I can get it back? As of right now I lost all my next rank space abilities and am really gimp now since My build was a glass cannon build, no defense...
No man, you will never be able to put it all in space, at least unless they go back on this build. What I was saying was if you invest more in the low tier ground skills you should have more of your free skill points available for T5 space skills because you will not have to put as much into the T5 ground skills.

See that way that is worded makes it seem like voodoo. That is because this system is new to me and I have not figured out what is the bare minimum needed to really free up the "discretional" skill points for space only. Yes there is a minimum for each tier in both space and ground and a very small pool of free points you can put in either as you like. The problem is the way the skill tree is presented right now you do not get any sense of that so it is difficult to bias those discretional points for your style.

I really wish the number ranges above each tier were separate for ground and space as it would be far easier to gauge what the minimum really is. I am not at home right now so I can't get a screenie to show you my glass cannon's, (tac in an escort is a glass cannon last I checked), ground skill spread, but when I get off work I will post one, (or at least write it up), if you'd like. Trust me I am certain you could get a bit more for T5 space skills than I got on the build I am thinking of. This is only the second toon I have personally converted and it's the first endgame toon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 934
01-07-2012, 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piwright42 View Post
No man, you will never be able to put it all in space, at least unless they go back on this build. What I was saying was if you invest more in the low tier ground skills you should have more of your free skill points available for T5 space skills because you will not have to put as much into the T5 ground skills.

See that way that is worded makes it seem like voodoo. That is because this system is new to me and I have not figured out what is the bare minimum needed to really free up the "discretional" skill points for space only. Yes there is a minimum for each tier in both space and ground and a very small pool of free points you can put in either as you like. The problem is the way the skill tree is presented right now you do not get any sense of that so it is difficult to bias those discretional points for your style.

I really wish the number ranges above each tier were separate for ground and space as it would be far easier to gauge what the minimum really is. I am not at home right now so I can't get a screenie to show you my glass cannon's, (tac in an escort is a glass cannon last I checked), ground skill spread, but when I get off work I will post one, (or at least write it up), if you'd like. Trust me I am certain you could get a bit more for T5 space skills than I got on the build I am thinking of. This is only the second toon I have personally converted and it's the first endgame toon.
Thanks for the info, I'm thinking about just starting a new build then... I'm not sure what I want to do. I wish they had just made 2 separate skill pools for ground and space. So when you lvl you get ground points to spend and space points. That way no one is lacking in space or ground. Maybe I can port the entire game to my PC and run my own server and set the rules like people did in eq1 lol... jk cryptic...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 935
01-07-2012, 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlore View Post
Thanks for the info, I'm thinking about just starting a new build then... I'm not sure what I want to do. I wish they had just made 2 separate skill pools for ground and space. So when you lvl you get ground points to spend and space points. That way no one is lacking in space or ground. Maybe I can port the entire game to my PC and run my own server and set the rules like people did in eq1 lol... jk cryptic...
Don't know why I did not think of this earlier but a fellow player by the name of Attilio was kind enough to make a skill planner for us and has kept it updated through all three versions of the skill systems. It is very advanced for what it is and takes into account your faction, ship, equipment and favorite ground and space skills for your toon and BOs. If you have not heard of it then give it a try, if you have well sorry that I am redundant.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 936
01-07-2012, 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TF-Omega View Post
Yes, I only PvP and I only fly space. I don't ever do ground When I tried to duplicate my build I had prior to the update, I was 53K points shy of completing it.

I am pure tac. I do not hit the "i win" space skills by using offensive sci and eng skills. My only offensive is my weapons-- which has always served me well until this update.

I have used up all 300K.

If one uses all offensive sci and offensive eng skills... I'm sure that you can get away with having less that 9's in those categories.. however a pure tac is different. I play my role. The loss of 53K hurt me more than it hurt a non-pure tac build.

Trust me, I know what I am doing.
look i dont know the math. but it was explained to me. the 9th point was always wasted. im a tact officer. i have all 8 points in most things i want. for my sci i run sci team and and shields 2. both are effective. for engy i run emergency power to engy 1 and sheilds 2. everything i skilled into has 8 points with left over points i put it into upping my warp speed 3 points into repping. i know its usless thoes skills but did not know where to put them. i could have just maxed out skills. but like i said 9 points is wasted. this "nerf" really is not a nerf. i got all the skills i used to have and more. i used to be a 50/50 build. now i got to be more effective.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 937
01-07-2012, 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlore View Post
Thanks for the info, I'm thinking about just starting a new build then... I'm not sure what I want to do. I wish they had just made 2 separate skill pools for ground and space. So when you lvl you get ground points to spend and space points. That way no one is lacking in space or ground. Maybe I can port the entire game to my PC and run my own server and set the rules like people did in eq1 lol... jk cryptic...
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com use this
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 938
01-07-2012, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piwright42 View Post
Don't know why I did not think of this earlier but a fellow player by the name of Attilio was kind enough to make a skill planner for us and has kept it updated through all three versions of the skill systems. It is very advanced for what it is and takes into account your faction, ship, equipment and favorite ground and space skills for your toon and BOs. If you have not heard of it then give it a try, if you have well sorry that I am redundant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
Thanks guys, I didn't know about this planer. Being casual player, it sucks having my space skills nerfed on my build.. I guess I'll use this planer to try and make another one.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 939
01-07-2012, 10:50 AM
I just wanted to say, I really like the skill split as it is right now!

I've been running some Elite Ground missions, and its nice because EVERYONE has some skill points in ground, so they don't suck even with not-that-great gear.

And for space, I've managed to get my build pretty close to where it was before. Power levels are almost the same (only 1 or 2 points off at most) and everything else is pretty good. The extra skills like Drive Coils have made an improvement on what you can spend points on.

My ONLY complaint still is that skills like Combat Armor and Starship Armor reinforcements need to be lower down in the skill tree so they don't take up so many higher-level skill points.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 940
01-07-2012, 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kostamojen View Post
My ONLY complaint still is that skills like Combat Armor and Starship Armor reinforcements need to be lower down in the skill tree so they don't take up so many higher-level skill points.
i agree on this. my fed is maxed on space after a respc. had alot of points in ground and wanted to put more in space. my space build is awesome and even ground is great. my only problem is my bop retrofit. i wanted to skill it with the build i was using. example would be shock wave sci team and polarized hull 2. in order to get points into my sci skills i could not get points into star ship armor. or to buff up against mines ect. i dont think anyone puts points into resist of movement and hold. so still sci officers got a huge nerf. its either put points into skills and lack on dps or a mix of both. even engineers can grab most points and still go for the dps tree.
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