Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 941
01-07-2012, 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlore View Post
Thanks guys, I didn't know about this planer. Being casual player, it sucks having my space skills nerfed on my build.. I guess I'll use this planer to try and make another one.
I do not see this as a nerf at all. You get just about as much as you had in space before if you plan your skills right and resist the temptation to go nine with the skills you really love. Skills ranged from three to six are far more effective than they were in the prior build.

My weapon of chioce today was Irion. He's my engie in an cruiser, (an Excelsior to be exact which is not the tankiest of cruisers in my opinion). While not as lethal as my tac in an escort I was able to tank all the spheres around a secondary transwarp gate in the Khittomer STF long enough to drop all but one or the nodes around it while the rest of my team were either guarding the main gate or taking down the the other secondary transwarp gate. I have five points in Threat Control so you know the Borg ships were paying attention to me. I could not have pulled that off in the old skill build. While I do PvP I am far from the best PvPer out there so I do not think of myself as a uber player in anyway. This is a screenie of the scoreboard from the PvP private challenge we did after the STF. OK I was inebriated by that time but still I would have not done much better sober.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 942
01-07-2012, 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
this moaning about the split is getting old.
Then don't read this thread.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 943
01-07-2012, 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piwright42 View Post
I do not see this as a nerf at all. You get just about as much as you had in space before
No you don't.. -53K...they can change the prices per tier and try to confuse you as much as they want.. but on the new scale, you have lost 53K at the end of the day.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 944
01-07-2012, 10:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TF-Omega View Post
No you don't.. -53K...they can change the prices per tier and try to confuse you as much as they want.. but on the new scale, you have lost 53K at the end of the day.
If I was weaker against the AI and other opponents in PvP, after the skill change, your argument would bear more merit with me. As it stands I play about the same against others in PvP and I am stronger VS NPCs in PvE. Proof, as they say, is in the pudding.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 945
01-08-2012, 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TF-Omega View Post
Then don't read this thread.
lol, i wrote a lot more then that, showing that your complaining about a bunch of nothing. but don't address that part of the post or anything.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 946
01-08-2012, 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piwright42 View Post
If I was weaker against the AI and other opponents in PvP, after the skill change, your argument would bear more merit with me. As it stands I play about the same against others in PvP and I am stronger VS NPCs in PvE. Proof, as they say, is in the pudding.
The argument, sir, is that I don't want to put points into something that I don't want to use. When i tried to duplicate my build before the update, I was shy 53K (on the new scale) from being able to reproduce that build. How can that make me stronger? I take mathematics over pudding any day because pudding tastes different to everyone and math is absolute. These guys are telling me I have to put 7's or 8's in the majority of my categories to have enough left over points to distribute more widely among my former skills that I can no longer put the points into by duplicating my build. How does that make me stronger? It makes me more mediocre. Can i throw a grenade at you in space? I didn't think so, but yet, I have points in that skill too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 947
01-08-2012, 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
lol, i wrote a lot more then that, showing that your complaining about a bunch of nothing. but don't address that part of the post or anything.
And my point back to you is that I stopped reading after the first sentence which is why that is the only thing I was responding to
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 948
01-08-2012, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TF-Omega View Post
And my point back to you is that I stopped reading after the first sentence which is why that is the only thing I was responding to
your loss. you all clearly don't understand the scope of the changes, otherwise you wouldn't be complaining about them still.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 949
01-08-2012, 11:03 AM
I have to say that after messing around a little bit and getting my skill points distributed out, the forced split wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I'm glad that they relaxed the limits a bit, it shows a willingness to address our concerns and I appreciate that. I was a bit hasty in my outright condemnation of the split earlier in the thread. That's what happens when you jump to conclusions like I did.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 950
01-08-2012, 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
your loss. you all clearly don't understand the scope of the changes, otherwise you wouldn't be complaining about them still.
yes I do.. fully... if everyone is on the same level, then it is hard to specialize in any one role (tac, science, eng). Everyone has now become mediocre. So, of course people will think that everyone is on the same playing field. I fully understand what everyone is saying.. in fact, I just said it.

If you care to embrace a wider viewpoint and the bigger picture, what I am saying is that instead of having 20 choices (arbitrary number), you now have 15 choices. So, if you want to have 20 choices again, you have to reduce your points within those 15 choices to be able to have at least some points in all 20 choices. Sound like what we are doing now? I was 53,000 points shy of duplicating my space build prior to the update. I had to take away points in other skills to put in those skills I lost.

THAT is what this update is.. and that is why everyone is "on the same playing field" and why everyone thinks that they are doing better than they were before the update.. they actually aren't, but it seems that way because those who truly understood the game before with all of its nuances have now been forced to come down to the everyone elses' level and feel nerfed.

You can also think of it this way.... Suppose we have a scale that represents the complexity of the game which is directly affected by the complexity of the skill point system...

Before the skill tree changes, lets say the scale was 1 to 10 (whole numbers), where 10 is the most powerful-- everyone will try to get as close to 10 as possible. The distribution of players' actual ranking, in theory, will be 7, 8, 9, and 10 due to varying degrees of understanding about the game. There are more "paths" or choices to take and therefore, the distribution will be greater due to the increased complexity of the game.

Now, lets say the the scale is reduced because Cryptic "dumbed it down for all" with the new skill point system and the complexity has been decreased. We will visualize this "dumbing down effect" by reducing the scale to 5. Fewer choices means a greater chance of getting it right, correct?

So, you now have choices between 1 and 5 where 5 is the most powerful. Everyone will still try and get close to 5 as possible, but the distribution will be much closer together depending on the understanding of the game. Since Cryptic "dumbed it down" for all, everyone will probably be at a 4 or 5 (mostly 5). Now you have the majority on the same level where no one can specialize in their role and we all just sit there shooting at each other with no one really getting the upper hand.

Instead of a 10% chance of getting 10 and being the most powerful in the previous scale, you now have a 20% chance to get a 5 and be the most powerful in the new scale. You with me now?

I cannot choose the "extreme" build of being a tac.. I must now choose the mediocre build of being a tac by distributing my points more widely and having less in each skill that is pertinent to my role.

This is, bottom line, the definition of a nerf... a nerf for all, but a nerf nonetheless. It is no wonder that people think they are doing better than before the update while people like me feel that I have been nerfed... The distribution is closer together and therefore terrible players have been bumped up and really good players have been bumped down.

Sorry if you guys don't see it, but that is how it is. This RUINS PvP! Once everyone catches on to the new system, you might as well get rid of the PvP maps (space) because all we are going to be doing is shooting at one another without any hope of killing our targets.

I DO fully understand all the changes. Now, hopefully, you do too.
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