Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
12-28-2011, 09:04 AM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Community Rules and Policies. ~Q
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
12-28-2011, 09:05 AM
I expect the net result is that players will continue to either (a) avoid either ground or space completely, or (b) continue to roll separate toons for both.

This effort, while appreciated by me at least in spirit, will not change the player experience and represents an investment of developer time/dollars that in current form does not advance the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
12-28-2011, 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pococurante
I expect the net result is that players will continue to either (a) avoid either ground or space completely, or (b) continue to roll separate toons for both.

This effort, while appreciated by me at least in spirit, will not change the player experience and represents an investment of developer time/dollars that in current form does not advance the game.

Here, Here. In Pencil & Paper, any good game master learns to see the direction that his players want to go and use it to his advantage, not spend all his time trying to force them to want things that it is clear they don't want.

The problem is that essentially two 'weight divisions' have developed in the game. Like Light/mid/ and heavyweight boxers, there are people who want to 'full spec' and people who want to 'balance spec' and both want to experience fair competition (well, okay I suspect that at least some of the 'full spec' just aren't happy unless they get to stomp people in the lower division and then congratulate themselves cause they were smart enough to 'figured out' this brilliant 'full spec' strategy, but I digress)

That's the present reality. The community, and the economic 'invisible hand' have revealed that there is a demand for each of these two weight classes. The obvious solution to maximize profits? Split the Queue, not the tree.

Let people spend their points where ever they want (of course it's only fair for Cryptic to readjust the points and spending power at the same time, but most people have shown that they will not notice this anyway). Set a 'cut off' line to determine the weight classes. Like if the trees were the same as they are now on tribble, say if you spend more than 75% in Space or if you spend more than 25% in ground -- once you cross that line you are considered to be in the 'full spec' weight class and you will only PvP Queue with other folks in the 'full spec' weight class.

STFs being split into ground space the way they are now the STFs should not need too much adjusting. It would be great to see the return of combined ground/space STFs for people who want for their 'balanced' toons to be able to make use of the strengths of their balanced builds.

Balanced builds could maybe toggle an option setting to let them join 'full spec' queue if they thought they were up to the challenge, but 'full spec' could not choose to go 'ganking' in the balanced spec queues and noobs would not accidentally find them selves in the 'full spec' queue.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
12-28-2011, 10:09 AM
I for one am happy for people having to put some points into ground skills... perhaps now whenever i run the cure fround STF on normal my team will actually win... most the time people started bailing at the end because he was too tough for the PUG's....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
12-28-2011, 04:07 PM
I really don't like this idea, I HATE ground combat, I only do it as and when I have to, I really like the space combat and that's the only reason I play this game, I really don't want to be forced into having to waste 1/4 of my points into something I really don't like doing. Sorry but this is a massive loss to me, and to be honest is a real deal breaker on whether I get a lifetime sub or not, I'm glad I came across this on tribble to be honest.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
12-29-2011, 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by B1g_Dav3 View Post
I really don't like this idea, I HATE ground combat, I only do it as and when I have to, I really like the space combat and that's the only reason I play this game, I really don't want to be forced into having to waste 1/4 of my points into something I really don't like doing. Sorry but this is a massive loss to me, and to be honest is a real deal breaker on whether I get a lifetime sub or not, I'm glad I came across this on tribble to be honest.
I have been discussing this at length on these forums, on other forums, and with several members of my fleet. All in all, at least 95% of them are against this forced split, though for various reasons.

Spacers hate it for the same reason you do, which is being forced to spec into areas you have no desire to play.

Grounders hate it for the same reason.

Though a few hybrid players seem to support it, most are against it for a long list of reasons. Most are simply against having the choice taken away from them. Others think the split should be anywhere from 70/30 to 90/10, and many want them split three ways (space/ground/either) and in even more varied amounts.

I personally think that forcing someone to spend points in any area is bad, and that the community will never agree on if/how to split it. I wish Cryptic would just leave the things that are working fine alone, and focus more on the things that are broken.

However, if they are going to force us to put points into certain skills, then the answer is to add points to the pool, not take them away from us.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
12-29-2011, 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stromgold View Post
I have been discussing this at length on these forums, on other forums, and with several members of my fleet. All in all, at least 95% of them are against this forced split, though for various reasons.

Spacers hate it for the same reason you do, which is being forced to spec into areas you have no desire to play.

Grounders hate it for the same reason.

Though a few hybrid players seem to support it, most are against it for a long list of reasons. Most are simply against having the choice taken away from them. Others think the split should be anywhere from 70/30 to 90/10, and many want them split three ways (space/ground/either) and in even more varied amounts.

I personally think that forcing someone to spend points in any area is bad, and that the community will never agree on if/how to split it. I wish Cryptic would just leave the things that are working fine alone, and focus more on the things that are broken.

However, if they are going to force us to put points into certain skills, then the answer is to add points to the pool, not take them away from us.
I would be 100% up for this IF they raised the skill cap or lowered the cost for the skills, I went through ticking nicely what I wanted for space and then BAM, I get to the final skill set and can select 1 level on 1 skill, so I can't specialise my weapons, add shields or whatever else, so I am way disadvantaged in space to what I am now (completely specialised) and you know what, I do just fine in ground combat, I deteste it yes but I can do it quite nicely enough. This is in my opinion the worst 'update' in this game's history.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
12-29-2011, 01:36 PM
I agree. I could live with having points into ground, whether I use them or not, as long as it does not take away from the skills that I do use.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
12-31-2011, 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenkari
I for one am happy for people having to put some points into ground skills... perhaps now whenever i run the cure fround STF on normal my team will actually win... most the time people started bailing at the end because he was too tough for the PUG's....
many ppl do not play ground at all. Let me emphasize.. AT ALL. that is why we hate the idea.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
01-01-2012, 03:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TF-Omega View Post
many ppl do not play ground at all. Let me emphasize.. AT ALL. that is why we hate the idea.
I would have to agree with this...if I wanted to play wow or tor...I would play those mmos for their ground combat gaming....but I am drawn to this game mostly for the space combat. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the ground portion as well...but the space combat part is what sets this mmo apart from the rest.

To me this game is a combo of eve on-line, tor, and all the other types of mmos rolled into one. That's how i see it.

Why can't we have two separate skill trees with their own points to spend instead of a shared one...

One for the space and one for the ground....that way we could really focus on those builds both in space and on the ground to reflect our unique type of game play. Example...Wanna be a healer in space>spec for it, wanna kick arse on the ground>spec for it.or however you want. done. STO great...more people/customers play....yay!!!

Wouldn't it be easy to make the skill tree separate for the ground....insert said ground combat game> copy paste skill tree progression. done (that way if those that might play ground won't suck too much)

Now create or restore separate said skill tree for space captain skills...instant presto...STO is born again. (hehe ok i know it is not that easy)

I believe the bottom line is that...some players feel penalized by the removal of their skill points or to spend skill points in areas they do not play much or at all. (I enjoy both though...it's fun)
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