Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 351
12-25-2011, 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
1 million accounts has been done before--and they haven't verified whether these are subs or forum accounts.
Quote:
Star Wars: The Old Republic is the fastest-growing subscription MMO in history, with more than one million registered players since launching on December 20th.
That's saying 1mil + subs to me
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 352
12-25-2011, 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenor-Nyiad View Post
That's saying 1mil + subs to me
Yeah, that looks to be true.

However, everything with a grain of salt, my friend. Everquest was once to most played and subscribed game, until it was surpassed as well. WoW was the most anticipated and is regarded as the single most successful game of its kind, and yet is losing subs on a regular basis. TOR has the added benefit of tapping into the Star Wars crowd, which makes it VERY anticipated.

However, it brings nothing new to the table.

Don't get me wrong, I'm playing it and it's fun, but no matter how to slice it it sill is just a new skin on what works (i.e., the "WoW clone" as they call them now). We'll see how it does after its first year.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 353
12-26-2011, 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectreofwar View Post
Yeah, that looks to be true.

However, everything with a grain of salt, my friend. Everquest was once to most played and subscribed game, until it was surpassed as well. WoW was the most anticipated and is regarded as the single most successful game of its kind, and yet is losing subs on a regular basis. TOR has the added benefit of tapping into the Star Wars crowd, which makes it VERY anticipated.

However, it brings nothing new to the table.

Don't get me wrong, I'm playing it and it's fun, but no matter how to slice it it sill is just a new skin on what works (i.e., the "WoW clone" as they call them now). We'll see how it does after its first year.
I'm judging TOR as its own thing...most of the WoW refugees are those saying it's a clone on the TOR forums because they don't know any better. As a launch for an MMO, I see TOR's as one of the smoothest.

The game was complete already in Beta, virtually no bugs, and graphics were lowered on purpose to test stress with many players. The queues are being worked on to lower wait time, and Bioware is actually listening to feedback . Compared to launches like STO had or even SWG's rough launch, TOR is very relaxing. It's also sad that I've had the most fun in years on an MMO in a 2 week old MMO than a MMO that lasted 8 years (SWG) and almost 2 years (STO).

STO is preety much at a dead state...F2P launch will determine its future, otherwise STO will stay at this stand-still rate and slowly decline until it's forgotten. Hell, there is 0 advertising for STO, TOR had months upon months of advertising in every Star Wars comics, and a bunch of comercials...STO had maybe 2 days on SyFy nad then it was forgotten...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 354
12-26-2011, 09:44 AM
I'd debate you on whether SWTOR brings anything "new" to the table: a lot of what it brings, it brings in greater quantity than competitors but very little is new--even the story focus.
  • Other MMOs have had voice-over work as much as SWTOR does on a given quest but SWTOR just manages to make nearly every quest like that (some quests lack voicework--save for Companion "barking")

  • I can't think of another MMO with as much class-specific content but this goes to show that other MMOs have done it.

  • Bracketless PVP for warzones is something I've never seen. The big problem is that many classes lack many of their CC / Resist powers early on making a 50 v. 10 match of equal skill a face-stomp on the low level player. This is actually quite poor on their part (the broken raid frames also make PvP Healing *nearly* unplayable as a premade).

  • Pet storylines are not new (i.e. companions). STO even has pet stories in the Featured Series (i.e. how you get the breen, romulan, el-aurian, etc.) They're clearly not to SWTOR's scale but that doesn't mean it's new.

  • SWTOR provides currencies for every single leveling zone. Other MMOs have had endgame or region currencies--but SWTOR makes it its bread and butter.

  • Morality systems are nothing new: especially since there was an entire quest arc to join the "good/bad faction" in EQ2. However, the ability for that to impact pets is new as well as branching morality options. Granted, your choices are generally "hug the fluffy bunnies as the world collapses" or "forcibly insert lightsabers into their every orifice."

  • SWTOR is fairly instanced--planets are often broken in several separate instances during peak times. I was surprised by this too. This makes me wonder why they didn't go with single-shard technology as EVE, CO, and STO do?

But do I enjoy SWTOR?

Absolutely! Only a cynic couldn't enjoy the Imperial storylines. As an Imperial Agent, I'm having a blast.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 355
12-26-2011, 09:59 AM
I think there is room for both games as in my opinion theres really very few decent Sci fi based MMO's out there in my opinion. Personally I'll be sticking with STO for the forseeable future.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 356
12-26-2011, 10:09 AM
meet my... morrigan ? rly DA1
http://imageupload.org/?d=0DE1D8B91

super cute/sad inquisitor
http://www.imageupload.org/?d=36BE9F411
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 357
12-26-2011, 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenor-Nyiad View Post
I'm judging TOR as its own thing...most of the WoW refugees are those saying it's a clone on the TOR forums because they don't know any better. As a launch for an MMO, I see TOR's as one of the smoothest.

The game was complete already in Beta, virtually no bugs, and graphics were lowered on purpose to test stress with many players. The queues are being worked on to lower wait time, and Bioware is actually listening to feedback . Compared to launches like STO had or even SWG's rough launch, TOR is very relaxing. It's also sad that I've had the most fun in years on an MMO in a 2 week old MMO than a MMO that lasted 8 years (SWG) and almost 2 years (STO).

STO is preety much at a dead state...F2P launch will determine its future, otherwise STO will stay at this stand-still rate and slowly decline until it's forgotten. Hell, there is 0 advertising for STO, TOR had months upon months of advertising in every Star Wars comics, and a bunch of comercials...STO had maybe 2 days on SyFy nad then it was forgotten...
I'm judging TOR based on what it gives me, which as much as I can help it is it's own thing,. First off, I haven't played WoW in quite some time, but I was there for 5 years on and off. I'll TOTALLY grant you the launch was the smoothest of any MMO in memory. We all know STO's (those of us who were here, anyway), and in WoW you couldn't even loot an item unless it was money for a week. I haven't been present for any other MMO launch, so that's the extent of my experience.

However, just because it had a smoother launch doesn't make it any less a WoW clone. The gameplay itself is what I'm referring to; and yes, there were (and still are) bugs in the game, no game is perfect

The fun you had compared to what others have is also not relevant to whether or not it is a WoW clone. Don't misunderstand me: when I say TOR is a WoW clone, and I tell you I'm playing and enjoying it, what I mean by that is that I view it as a game like WoW, only better in every way.

After all, if I really wanted to play WoW, I would; I have four 85's waiting for whatever long, drawn-out endgame crap I'd have the constitution to put myself through.

STO is what it is, in my view: a game whose developers had a grand view of what they wanted to do, that WAS different from other MMOs, and it fell very short of the mark due to a number of factors both admitted and hidden. Cryptic, in my opinion, was too small a team to handle the scope of what Star Trek could have and might have been, despite their efforts. What they've presented to me is a a game that is in a constant state of open beta, and yet it's enthralling enough that I have remained (or rather, quit and come back to see what's new). NOBODY offers me a spaceship like STO, nor its customization, its bridge officers and now duty officers for a casual gamer like me. It is what it is, and what it is is entertainment that still grabs me.

I'm still wary of F2P. I regret that I can't counter your final statement, because I'm not the greatest at predicting the future.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 358
12-26-2011, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
I'd debate you on whether SWTOR brings anything "new" to the table: a lot of what it brings, it brings in greater quantity than competitors but very little is new--even the story focus.
  • Other MMOs have had voice-over work as much as SWTOR does on a given quest but SWTOR just manages to make nearly every quest like that (some quests lack voicework--save for Companion "barking")

  • I can't think of another MMO with as much class-specific content but this goes to show that other MMOs have done it.

  • Bracketless PVP for warzones is something I've never seen. The big problem is that many classes lack many of their CC / Resist powers early on making a 50 v. 10 match of equal skill a face-stomp on the low level player. This is actually quite poor on their part (the broken raid frames also make PvP Healing *nearly* unplayable as a premade).

  • Pet storylines are not new (i.e. companions). STO even has pet stories in the Featured Series (i.e. how you get the breen, romulan, el-aurian, etc.) They're clearly not to SWTOR's scale but that doesn't mean it's new.

  • SWTOR provides currencies for every single leveling zone. Other MMOs have had endgame or region currencies--but SWTOR makes it its bread and butter.

  • Morality systems are nothing new: especially since there was an entire quest arc to join the "good/bad faction" in EQ2. However, the ability for that to impact pets is new as well as branching morality options. Granted, your choices are generally "hug the fluffy bunnies as the world collapses" or "forcibly insert lightsabers into their every orifice."

  • SWTOR is fairly instanced--planets are often broken in several separate instances during peak times. I was surprised by this too. This makes me wonder why they didn't go with single-shard technology as EVE, CO, and STO do?

But do I enjoy SWTOR?

Absolutely! Only a cynic couldn't enjoy the Imperial storylines. As an Imperial Agent, I'm having a blast.
- Age of Conan: Granted I didn't play long, but it seemed EVERYONE talked to you. Only real difference was that your character, when choosing options to respond, didn't have any VO work to respond with.

- There *is* a lot of class-specific stuff in SWTOR. But you're right, not "new" as much as "in greater quantity"

- I think WoW had bracketless PvP zones in the same style as TOR at the very beginning; this is only from what I'd read. Non-Open PvP actually intimidated me at the beginning; I could hold my own in the world, but being counted on in a small team like that was a little daunting. As such, I can't comment beyond that, except that whatever brackerting they had didn't last long; it was segregated when I finally jumped in.

- Yep.

- Also yep.

- Yeah, I haven't seen anything else that made it THAT important in an MMO for your morality choices (and honestly, considering some of the storylines in other MMOs I wish their had been - some people earned a grisly death that never came)

- Yep.


And finally, yep: I'm loving the IA too. BEST storyline and drew me in RIGHT from the get-go.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 359
12-26-2011, 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenor-Nyiad View Post
Quote:
Star Wars: The Old Republic is the fastest-growing subscription MMO in history, with more than one million registered players since launching on December 20th.
That's saying 1mil + subs to me
I doubt it at this point based opn what I'm reading on the forums - and what my Guildmates are saying (and yes, it's possible and easy to read the SWToR forums if you aren't subbed yet as they only have a redirect on their 'Community' link - if you have a direct link to any post; you can bypass that redirect and read. You might even be able to post, but I haven't found a reason to yet.

BUT, 1 million+ 'registered' doesn't mean 1 million+ subbed as I myself am still registered and have acess to the website on that registered account, and hell, I can even continue to patch the client (which I'm doing because of ythe change I may decide to gve it a go) - BUT, that depends on my Guild staying. I usually start up pretty soon aafter launch; and (as usual) my old WoW guildmates were pretty enthused; but they really like PvP, and aren't really happy with the way the SWToR Warzones are set up - and the crafters don't care much for the crafting system in general after playing it a week. So, if they quit, I'll probably stay 'registered' on the SWToR site; but may not take the $60 plunge and sub. (And yes, they came to STO too for a time; but only two besides me stayed; and I already found an active Fleet i n this game; but as I 'took the LTS plunge' early, I'm of course staying no matter what else comes out.

Still I would say as someone who still has a registed SWToR account on the SWToR site (and played beta for the last 4 months); that 'registered' doesn't necessarily equal 'subcribed'.

They sold a lot of boxes though. The interesting stat will be how many subscribers they retain after 3 months. (Remember that Age of Conan had 750K subs at launch - added a load of servers over it's first two months - yet lost them fast; and today is F2P with 4 servers total (2 PvP and 2 PvE).

Dioes this spell doom for SWToR - probably not as the game from what I read is running well for most folks (although by the forums a lot aren't happy and for others the VO aspect is fading; and EA/BioWare support is angering a lot of folks (sounds familiar ) - but it'll be interesting to see just what sort or subscription retention SWToR maintains, and how fast they are able to add content that expands the game and lives up to the level of the launched content (and that's going to cost them A LOT of money in Voice Over alone.)

As o the comments on 'WoW Clone' as far as combat, quest (aside from cutscenes and VO); and other ground mechanics - yep, completely accurate. It's not because the WoW refugees have nothing else to say, it's a completely accurate statement. But it's what Lucas Arts asked for; and what EA/BioWare delivered.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 360
12-26-2011, 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
..... But on the other hand, if STO achieves its potential in exploration and story...
Good luck, don't hold your breathe

In the meantime, please purchase the Red Gift Boxes, its donation will at least probably get us some true game content 2 yrs from now.
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