Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 421
01-03-2012, 10:16 AM
Twice now, once on Balmorra, and now on Tatooine, I was thinking: "What, more missions! When can I get to the next planet". (Of course, the answer was that I already could, I already finished my class arc story on the planet.). And I didn't even yet touch the Team quests and the flash points. (No, really, no flash point done at all, I already outleveled 2 or 3!).

Of course, this is my first char, it remains to be seen how well this works on the second. But if my second is a Fed..., err Republic character, I will have an entirely different line of quests in all regards. (at least up to this level.)
And the class storyline is pretty prominent, so even with all the side quests again, another Empire character should be interesting to play.

I don't know about endgame content, but I am fairly sure that the "level-up" content is richer than in STO. Sure, a lot of it boils down to "go there, interact with something, kill something". But voiced dialogs really make the experience richer to me. Also, combat in TOR is simply more fun then STO ground combat. (The game would be an instant failure if it wasn't.)

Also, I like crafting. Reverse Engineering makes stuff really more interesting. I finally have 3 companion characters, and that allows a lot of stuff to be done in the background now. The STO DOFF system is certainly more complex, but I feel like the crew skill system in TOR gives more "tangible" benefits. I can immediately use it for Crafting, I am always checking if there's a mission for my companions so I can get what I need.

The space is a shooter on rails and cannot really compare to STO space combat. But for PvE purposes, it is more varied then STO space combat encounters. That is probably the advantage of the "rail". (Though it is a specific issue of the combination of Startrek space battles and the Cryptic's engine that makes STO space combat somewhat limited. X-Wing, TIE Fighter or Wing Commander show how versatile missions you can generate if you have a lot of starfighters involved, but it gets difficult if you have only huge battleships. But I believe it would be possible to make this more engaging and varied - but not the way Cryptic's engine handles combat)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 422
01-03-2012, 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackV7
Yes TOR was in an abyss in regards to development, I give you that argument (Considering the gazillion voice overs & Real Life actors they hired), but in the end it was well worth it. Its barely a month old and I am sure Bioware has more in the works - unlike Cryptic who has NO excuse since they should have focus on pleasing their current playerbase by more content ---> (They had 2 YEARS, TWO FRICKIN Years - more than enough time to fix the KDF and add a million FE)
BioWare had 6 years of development on SWToR - 6 years; plus a 150 - 300 million development budget (depending on who you believe) . <---- And in ALL that time, they coouldn't even put in a real space combat system to their game (which even SWG had.)

The one innovations was the fully cutscened/fully VOed mission content (and it's impressive.)

But compare that to STO (with and 18 month initial Dev cycle and a 25-30 million development budget); and I think you'll see Cryptic did okay with the situation they were handed. Also, for the first year, Cryptic WAS adding content. The stuff hit the fan and mission content production ground to a halt when Atari 'discontinued' and put them up for sale - AND in thne 6 months where the deal was being negotiated, Atari:

- Cut their development funding to bare operational minimum.

- Had staff leaving (because the situation was uncertain); and when a staff member left, Atari wouldn't allow the position to be backfilled.

- At that point, Cryptic decided to start the F2P conversion knowing that either way it went (assuming they didn't shut down) either Atari (after failing to sell them ) or PWE (who's every other MMO is F2P) would WANT the F2P conversion. I think the two versions of the development schedule Dan had to keep was:

1) Atari retains ownership and development funding and staffing stays were it is (at the March - August levels); so Dan had a schedule based on this.

2) PWE comes in (and in the talks pprobably gave Dan an idea of what they would do with regard to upping staffing levels and overall development budget (which was more than Atari was allowing); so Dan made a developmentr schedule based on that that probably INCLUDED some overall lost productivity in the short term; as they hired nerw people, and the existing staff had to train them and get gthem up to speed, etc.

The headache was not knowing which schedule was going to be the 'final' one going forward, and I'm sure he had to adjust both up to the day the deal went throiugh.

Still, in that time, we did get:

- A ground combat revamp
- A graphics engine update
- The revamped Q'O Nos First City Zone
- The StarFleet Academy Zone
- The Borg Space Red Alerts.

And the above was about 2 months behind schedule. So, the devs WERE working and adding to the game, just not adding new playable 'storyline missions (although IMO the space based Borg Red Alert is a 'world mission event, sio it is a form of mission content.

Now, after the deal was concluded, and since, we've gotten:

- The Doff system (and I didn't include it in the above as it wasn't finally released even to test until AFTER the acquisition; but it was being worked on since Atari 'discontinied' operations on Cryptic as well)

- The F2P client (for better or worse, it is what it is)
- The Klingon Academy Zone
- Lore missions at both the SFA and KA zones.

The 'Event System' that includes:
- The Fed/KDF Mirror Event (like a Mini Fleet Action') <--- It's a new even I enjoy when it pops.
- Tour The Universe (Not really an event I care for)
- SFA/KA event .
- Three Events based on existing content that just give some type of bonus for doing said content during that period.)
- The Defera Invasion Event (another piece of what could be termed BOTH a new zone and new mission content even if I don't care for how it's gated.)

Then in prep for F2P, qwe also got:
- I belleve Five New Fed ships (all C-Store)
- Nine new KDF ships (all C-Store)
- The revamped STF and STF gear rrewards system.

And for the 'seson, they did:
- The 'Winter Event'

So, while it's ABSOLUTELY true we got no new FE series 9and I'm as bummed about that as anyone else, believe me); it's also not completely honest to claim the STO Dev team hasn't done anything new for the game in the past year. That just not accrate. People may not like the priorities (and I really woukld have liked an FE series mixed in with the above myself); but it's definitely NOT the case that the Devs have at all abandoned the game; they just added content in other areas (Including three brand new things that ARE mission content of a sort.)

As for BioWare and SWToR; again, they too have made A LOT of promioses and the one thing they've stated as 'cming soon' is a new endgame level flashpoint, and the expansion of the Legacy system. (But STO started quick too as they put the STFs out soon post release; so it this could be a case that BioWare also 'held something back' at the start to 'show' they too can expand their game. I really do hope they pull it off - BUT, the real proof will come after we see how much new content they are able to deliver to SWToR in te first year.
^^^
If they can demonstrate an ability to roll out new content at the level of quality their lauch content was, and do so at a sustained and consistent pace; I'll applaud. But at this point, to claim:

Quote:
Its barely a month old and I am sure Bioware has more in the works - unlike Cryptic who has NO excuse since they should have focus on pleasing their current playerbase by more content ---> (They had 2 YEARS, TWO FRICKIN Years - more than enough time to fix the KDF and add a million FE)
and somehow believe Cryptic in two years had:

Quote:
(They had 2 YEARS, TWO FRICKIN Years - more than enough time to fix the KDF and add a million FE)
Is a bit disengenuous given BioWare had 6 years and couldn't even do a real space combat system ala SWGs in that time. Again I'm also playing SWToR - and I hope BioWare can deliver; but they've already shown their like EVERY OTHER MMO developer to date when it comes to CS; so I have to wonder if they CAN indeed keep new content flowing at a sustained rate with what they've set up (and NY new content will need a longer post production period and be more expensive than any other MMO because of the VO requirements. EA is also NOT know for having loose purse strings - they want minimum expenditure and maximum profit; and they've pulled out fast if a product doesn't achieve that paradigm; so I'd say the first year of SWToR's lifecycle could be interesting.

But so far; based on the SWToR forums and with a User metacritic scopre of 6.1 (link)

[And for comparison STO's User metacritic score is 6.0) (link)]

SWToR hasn't 'hit one out of the park' as it were just quite yet. It may, or it may not; but the usual pattern is playing itself out in that the 'true believers' think BioWare will be the ONE MMO developer that breaks the pattern of not living up to its promises; and the others who just want to hate ofon the game - and further, those of us with A LOT of MMO launches under our belt who see yet another MMO launch like all the rest and go through the SAME exact cycle which is:

- The 'Honeymoon Period' where even the mildly interested players this said new MMO will 'be the one that finally 'does it right...'

- Then when the first delay of new cvontent begin to see that hope fade but are still optomistc...

- Until more dates fade; OR they release what some feel is substandard content; or the Dev team starts to nerf something popular.

SWToR is still in the Honeymoon period. It'll be interesting to see where it's at after year one. (And I may still be playing or I may not as well; but even the casuals in my guild have characters reaching Level 30; and they haven't spacebared a thing; so the idea that SWToR would have a longer more in depth leveling process is seemingly out the window; as I have a feeling most will have one level 50 in their first month. I guess it's going to depend on how many Alts a player really wants.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 423
01-03-2012, 12:02 PM
When you look at websites that are based around users giving a review, you are going to get a TON of people who hate a game just to hate it, maybe because its competition to their favorite title, maybe just cause it was hyped up *And lets be honest, SWTOR was hyped to HELL and back*.

So yea, Trolls and Fanboys do apply in this scenario.

I'm going to say less than half of the actual negative reviews actually played the game, and less than that played it past level ten.

Legitimate SWTOR players
70 22.08%

Trolls
147 46.37%

SWTOR Fans
4 1.26%

Fans of XXXXXXX Game
74 23.34%

none of the above
22 6.94%
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 424
01-03-2012, 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armsman View Post
BioWare had 6 years of development on SWToR - 6 years; plus a 150 - 300 million development budget (depending on who you believe) . <---- And in ALL that time, they coouldn't even put in a real space combat system to their game (which even SWG had.)

The one innovations was the fully cutscened/fully VOed mission content (and it's impressive.)

But compare that to STO (with and 18 month initial Dev cycle and a 25-30 million development budget); and I think you'll see Cryptic did okay with the situation they were handed. Also, for the first year, Cryptic WAS adding content. The stuff hit the fan and mission content production ground to a halt when Atari 'discontinued' and put them up for sale - AND in thne 6 months where the deal was being negotiated, Atari:

- Cut their development funding to bare operational minimum.

- Had staff leaving (because the situation was uncertain); and when a staff member left, Atari wouldn't allow the position to be backfilled.

- At that point, Cryptic decided to start the F2P conversion knowing that either way it went (assuming they didn't shut down) either Atari (after failing to sell them ) or PWE (who's every other MMO is F2P) would WANT the F2P conversion. I think the two versions of the development schedule Dan had to keep was:

1) Atari retains ownership and development funding and staffing stays were it is (at the March - August levels); so Dan had a schedule based on this.

2) PWE comes in (and in the talks pprobably gave Dan an idea of what they would do with regard to upping staffing levels and overall development budget (which was more than Atari was allowing); so Dan made a developmentr schedule based on that that probably INCLUDED some overall lost productivity in the short term; as they hired nerw people, and the existing staff had to train them and get gthem up to speed, etc.

The headache was not knowing which schedule was going to be the 'final' one going forward, and I'm sure he had to adjust both up to the day the deal went throiugh.

Still, in that time, we did get:

- A ground combat revamp
- A graphics engine update
- The revamped Q'O Nos First City Zone
- The StarFleet Academy Zone
- The Borg Space Red Alerts.

And the above was about 2 months behind schedule. So, the devs WERE working and adding to the game, just not adding new playable 'storyline missions (although IMO the space based Borg Red Alert is a 'world mission event, sio it is a form of mission content.

Now, after the deal was concluded, and since, we've gotten:

- The Doff system (and I didn't include it in the above as it wasn't finally released even to test until AFTER the acquisition; but it was being worked on since Atari 'discontinied' operations on Cryptic as well)

- The F2P client (for better or worse, it is what it is)
- The Klingon Academy Zone
- Lore missions at both the SFA and KA zones.

The 'Event System' that includes:
- The Fed/KDF Mirror Event (like a Mini Fleet Action') <--- It's a new even I enjoy when it pops.
- Tour The Universe (Not really an event I care for)
- SFA/KA event .
- Three Events based on existing content that just give some type of bonus for doing said content during that period.)
- The Defera Invasion Event (another piece of what could be termed BOTH a new zone and new mission content even if I don't care for how it's gated.)

Then in prep for F2P, qwe also got:
- I belleve Five New Fed ships (all C-Store)
- Nine new KDF ships (all C-Store)
- The revamped STF and STF gear rrewards system.

And for the 'seson, they did:
- The 'Winter Event'

So, while it's ABSOLUTELY true we got no new FE series 9and I'm as bummed about that as anyone else, believe me); it's also not completely honest to claim the STO Dev team hasn't done anything new for the game in the past year. That just not accrate. People may not like the priorities (and I really woukld have liked an FE series mixed in with the above myself); but it's definitely NOT the case that the Devs have at all abandoned the game; they just added content in other areas (Including three brand new things that ARE mission content of a sort.)

As for BioWare and SWToR; again, they too have made A LOT of promioses and the one thing they've stated as 'cming soon' is a new endgame level flashpoint, and the expansion of the Legacy system. (But STO started quick too as they put the STFs out soon post release; so it this could be a case that BioWare also 'held something back' at the start to 'show' they too can expand their game. I really do hope they pull it off - BUT, the real proof will come after we see how much new content they are able to deliver to SWToR in te first year.
^^^
If they can demonstrate an ability to roll out new content at the level of quality their lauch content was, and do so at a sustained and consistent pace; I'll applaud. But at this point, to claim:



and somehow believe Cryptic in two years had:



Is a bit disengenuous given BioWare had 6 years and couldn't even do a real space combat system ala SWGs in that time. Again I'm also playing SWToR - and I hope BioWare can deliver; but they've already shown their like EVERY OTHER MMO developer to date when it comes to CS; so I have to wonder if they CAN indeed keep new content flowing at a sustained rate with what they've set up (and NY new content will need a longer post production period and be more expensive than any other MMO because of the VO requirements. EA is also NOT know for having loose purse strings - they want minimum expenditure and maximum profit; and they've pulled out fast if a product doesn't achieve that paradigm; so I'd say the first year of SWToR's lifecycle could be interesting.

But so far; based on the SWToR forums and with a User metacritic scopre of 6.1 (link)

[And for comparison STO's User metacritic score is 6.0) (link)]

SWToR hasn't 'hit one out of the park' as it were just quite yet. It may, or it may not; but the usual pattern is playing itself out in that the 'true believers' think BioWare will be the ONE MMO developer that breaks the pattern of not living up to its promises; and the others who just want to hate ofon the game - and further, those of us with A LOT of MMO launches under our belt who see yet another MMO launch like all the rest and go through the SAME exact cycle which is:

- The 'Honeymoon Period' where even the mildly interested players this said new MMO will 'be the one that finally 'does it right...'

- Then when the first delay of new cvontent begin to see that hope fade but are still optomistc...

- Until more dates fade; OR they release what some feel is substandard content; or the Dev team starts to nerf something popular.

SWToR is still in the Honeymoon period. It'll be interesting to see where it's at after year one. (And I may still be playing or I may not as well; but even the casuals in my guild have characters reaching Level 30; and they haven't spacebared a thing; so the idea that SWToR would have a longer more in depth leveling process is seemingly out the window; as I have a feeling most will have one level 50 in their first month. I guess it's going to depend on how many Alts a player really wants.)
I just hit level 50 yesterday, I wasn't even pushing for it. I can say one thing, the game doesn't end at 50. I've still got two more planets to finish, a heap of bonus series missions to work on and a class story to finish. Then I can look at World Bosses, Raiding and Heroic Flashpoints.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 425
01-03-2012, 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackV7
When you look at websites that are based around users giving a review, you are going to get a TON of people who hate a game just to hate it, maybe because its competition to their favorite title, maybe just cause it was hyped up *And lets be honest, SWTOR was hyped to HELL and back*.
An equally fair asessment would be also to include the extreme SW fans that simply posted to save face.

Quote:
So yea, Trolls and Fanboys do apply in this scenario.
Agreed. Those that posted a 0 with nothing but a "don't like this", one lined posts, are most likely just trolls.
While those that posted a 10 (a perfect score) while saying "the game isn't perfect", are most likely the SW Luvin Defense Team.

Quote:
I'm going to say less than half of the actual negative reviews actually played the game,
Why would you make such an large assumption?

Quote:
and less than that played it past level ten.
Why would you make this even larger assumption?

With those two assumptions, is it not possible, that someone started playing, didn't like it, then reviewed poorly based on those expierences?
The same would go with some who voted favorably. If they just started playing, but haven't expierenced the entirety of the game, would their point be equally valid and invalid?

Quote:
*numbers*
I really can't agree with your numbers based entirely upon the two assumptions you based them on.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 426
01-03-2012, 02:51 PM
Here it goes: TOR > STO. I also think that a steak > pizza. But that doesnt mean I dont enjoy pizza. I enjoy both steak and pizza, and just because I think that a steak may be a higher quality meal doesnt mean I'm not going to eat pizza anymore. Once people realize they can enjoy more than one game at the same time they will be alot happier.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 427
01-03-2012, 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Once people realize they can enjoy more than one game at the same time they will be alot happier.
This!^^^

I currently have 5 different online games installed on my computer.
Why?
Because I like them all, and I heavy plenty of drive space.

Although I do solidly disagree with your Steak>Pizza preference, simply due to the existence of Steak Pizza. The ULTIMATE FOOD!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 428
01-03-2012, 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirian_darkstar View Post
This!^^^

I currently have 5 different online games installed on my computer.
Why?
Because I like them all, and I heavy plenty of drive space.
It does make a 1 TB drive seem small once you have more than one installed heh.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 429
01-03-2012, 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS_Excalibur View Post
It does make a 1 TB drive seem small once you have more than one installed heh.
Not at all.
The Cryptic folder is only 18G while holding STO and Champs.
Funcoms folder with Age of Conan and Anarchy Online is currently 26.3G
Fiesta is 3.34G
So only a total of 47.64G.
Lots of drive space left.
That's only 4.764% of the Terabyte drive.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 430
01-03-2012, 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirian_darkstar View Post
Not at all.
The Cryptic folder is only 18G while holding STO and Champs.
Funcoms folder with Age of Conan and Anarchy Online is currently 26.3G
Fiesta is 3.34G
So only a total of 47.64G.
Lots of drive space left.
That's only 4.764% of the Terabyte drive.
Hell, my entire "Games Directory with:

STO (and the two test server clients)

CO (With Test Server)

SWToR (No test server client though as the regular servers are beta enough for mre atm - although for me, the final version DOES run better than the last beta client for me, so they made some progress.)

WAR (Don't know why I haven't removed it as I haven't played since 2009 - I nuked *** after the first 3 months it was out)

WoW (Through WolK - last played in 2009 too and never got CATA)

And about 8 stand alone games from old favorites like FreeSpace to SWKotoR amd Bridge Commander - it only uses 85 GB. Hell an old 150 GB could hold all that and still run ok.
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