Thanks Splutter. Pretty much as I feared then. Hopefully their 'secret project' with regards to space combat is a step in the right direction, but I'm not willing to put money on it. A company who decided single player tunnel shooter as the sole representation of space combat in a sci fi MMO with the budget that TOR had was a good idea doesn't really inspire confidence.

heh, when STOF2P starts at UK time, I'll be raiding with my guild in WoW, so meh... but hey, thats STO and other MMO's biggest issue, other MMO's

Two things wrong with WoW. Over population of Elves and complete lack of Capulets.

heh, quite a few Euro shards, especially for alliance are dying a hard death, my alli guild on Ravenholdt is dead... my horde guild on Defias is luke warm, but then again, guilds are screwed in WoW since guild perks were added, as everyone wants to be in a max lvl guild and sponge the perks

And yet, millions have bought it, millions are playing it so it must have inspired confidence in those.

The tunnel shooter has surprised many people as it's enjoyable. To the STO crowd, it's not a patch on this space game and I agree totally, however, you could argue that the ground side to this game is pants and TOR's wipes the floor with it...

That said, the space side to this game got stale real quick and at least as an altaholic that I am, I have plenty of other things to re do on TOR when I reach max level with my toon and want to try other classes and something STO could have done with, 2 "complete" factions to choose from to boot.

I love how some people still bash TOR because they know that in 12 months it'll be the reason this game shuts down, I've come across countless people on TOR who have jumped ship and say they'll wait for the next Star Trek MMO (if it ever happens) and hope it gets picked up by a decent company.

What the masses gulp down vs an individual's personal taste in something <--- they really are two different things.

wait a second, Cryptic made CoH before they were dropped by NC Soft and CoH was handed to a new dev company and "saved"

Hell, STO would be a much better game if it was still under the umbrella of NC Soft, as no matter how much I gripe about NC Soft, they've only had one catastrophic failure and that was Tabula Rasa, which wasn't even their issue, it was Major British using 24million pounds of TR development money to go into space

damn i still remember that S**t storm kicking off and hearing about it from my friends at NCSoft

You say you enjoyed TOR's space combat, and that STO's got stale. I disagree. STO's space combat is pretty fun, I think, and is the main reason I play this game. TOR's space combat on the other hand, is awful. Sure, it looks pretty, but it really doesn't play very well. Unless, of course, you are a Starfox fan, and I was never a huge Starfox fan. It was too restrictive, just like TOR's space combat.

Like I said, the space combat thread was the most heated debate going on the TOR forums. You had people on both sides of the fence, so I'm not surprised it got a load of subscriptions. Out of the millions who play it though, I can't help but wonder how many of them take part in space combat on a regular basis. My bet is that it will be a pretty low percentage of the population.

My reasons for that belief are:

1. From what people were saying on their forums, they believe either space combat sucks, or is unimportant. Very, very few people posted saying they actually liked the way it was done. This was the main debate over the issue. It wasn't space combat sucks vs space combat is awesome. It was space combat sucks vs we don't need space combat.

2. They have already announced a 'secret project' to make space combat 'better'. If their current space combat was any good, they wouldn't need to do anything with it.

As for the ground side of TOR, it is WoW with lightsabers and cutscenes. The gameplay is identical to WoW, even to the point of more or less copying character classes. Sure, this will make it easy to get into for all those people who played WoW, which is what Bioware wanted, but that doesn't make it good gameplay.

I don't know if I was the only one who found this amusing, but did anyone else notice a similarity between TOR's crew skills, and STO's DOff system? TOR's crfating professions are basically a mix of WoW's professions, and the DOff system. Hardly innovative.

The only thing that makes TOR worth playing are the stories. Bioware have always written excellent stories. KotOR is still one of my all time favourite games. The cutscenes and dialogue are superbly done. But, does that make the game worth some £40-ish plus £10-£15 per month?