Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 911
02-03-2012, 03:58 AM
Mmm popcorn's good.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 912
02-03-2012, 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bort1980 View Post
You want to know what STO has done better than TOR?

Simple.

It's not WoW with lightsabers. They chose to take a different approach to actual gameplay mechanics. Forget about TOR's dialogue/alignment system, that's old news too. Bioware have had something similar in just about every game they have made, so while it is new to MMOs, it is not new to Bioware.

STO is not 'space-based' and TOR is not 'ground based'. They are both sci fi MMOs in a setting which involves both ground and space gameplay. Or, at least, they both should. Space was just as important in Star Wars than in Star Trek, so the joke that Bioware has for space combat is basically an insult to the Star Wars fans out there who remember the original trilogy and grew up wanting to be Han Solo. STO's space combat, while not exactly dogfighting, is considerably better gameplay.

As for the 'ground' side of the games, well, STO isn't great, but as I have already said, it has one major thing going for it. It isn't WoW. The gameplay in TOR is identical to WoW's gameplay. I can vaguely understand why they did it. WoW is popular, so the mechanics are well known. That doesn't make it right though. The Kits system in STO make ground gameplay varied and different, allowing you mix and match your abilities depending on situation, instead of having to rely on cookie cutter builds that everyone and their dog has.

Unfortunately 1.7 million people disagree with you. An insult to SW? Lol.

I take it then you haven't played TOR and have no plans too then if it's such an insult, so how can you comment on a game you haven't played? If you have played, then why did you if you knew in advance that it didn't have any space game and was an insult to SW and was just another WoW clone?

Didn't even the Stoked guy say he would never play TOR and guess what, he virtually gave up STO because of TOR

I know your another of Cryptics biggest defenders and thats not me simply throwing out what your saying, however, you haven't given a balanced view. I notice you don't say that STO is an insult to Star Trek which many think it is (cough F2P) 60k subs. I will say that my view too can also be blinkered and even though I don't hate STO anymore as it's now F2P, I still don't feel that I got my monies worth and I only spent 34 on the game and subbed 3 times, so yes, my views are somewhat tainted. However, I like to think I can give some weight to my disagreements and opinons.

Star Trek was never about kill, kill, kill, it was about exploring, finding new things out there and when needs must, defending yourself, but not this pew pew pew. Diplomacy? What happend to it? That's right, another STO feature thats rushed and forgotten about.

This WoW with lightsabers shows me exactly how blinkered you are. I take it WoW is just EQ then? You do know there were MMos out before WoW?

Where are the class stories in WoW? The grouping mechanics when questing, are they the same? The U/I maybe simular however so are many MMo's.

Please, if you going to try and knock a successful game, at least come up with some good ways to debunk it and not the standard "its a WoW" clone or "no space game".

Myself, including many others, quite like the space part. It's not perfect, however it's a good mini game distraction that gets you credits too.If I feel the need to fly something, I come here now that it's F2P.

Oh, yes I too wanted to be Han Solo and I don't have a problem with him being landlocked at the moment
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 913
02-03-2012, 05:15 AM
Onerous

/10
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 914
02-03-2012, 05:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bort1980 View Post
It's not WoW with lightsabers.
Neither is TOR. I mean, just take a moment to play PvP in TOR and you'll see that the two games don't really compare.

TOR is a pretty common/typical MMORPG with the KOTOR story layered on top of it. It doesn't have much in common with WoW outside of the same types of things that WoW already has in common with games like Everquest.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 915
02-03-2012, 05:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solomace View Post
Unfortunately 1.7 million people disagree with you. An insult to SW? Lol.

I take it then you haven't played TOR and have no plans too then if it's such an insult, so how can you comment on a game you haven't played? If you have played, then why did you if you knew in advance that it didn't have any space game and was an insult to SW and was just another WoW clone?

Didn't even the Stoked guy say he would never play TOR and guess what, he virtually gave up STO because of TOR

I know your another of Cryptics biggest defenders and thats not me simply throwing out what your saying, however, you haven't given a balanced view. I notice you don't say that STO is an insult to Star Trek which many think it is (cough F2P) 60k subs. I will say that my view too can also be blinkered and even though I don't hate STO anymore as it's now F2P, I still don't feel that I got my monies worth and I only spent 34 on the game and subbed 3 times, so yes, my views are somewhat tainted. However, I like to think I can give some weight to my disagreements and opinons.

Star Trek was never about kill, kill, kill, it was about exploring, finding new things out there and when needs must, defending yourself, but not this pew pew pew. Diplomacy? What happend to it? That's right, another STO feature thats rushed and forgotten about.

This WoW with lightsabers shows me exactly how blinkered you are. I take it WoW is just EQ then? You do know there were MMos out before WoW?

Where are the class stories in WoW? The grouping mechanics when questing, are they the same? The U/I maybe simular however so are many MMo's.

Please, if you going to try and knock a successful game, at least come up with some good ways to debunk it and not the standard "its a WoW" clone or "no space game".

Myself, including many others, quite like the space part. It's not perfect, however it's a good mini game distraction that gets you credits too.If I feel the need to fly something, I come here now that it's F2P.

Oh, yes I too wanted to be Han Solo and I don't have a problem with him being landlocked at the moment
Actually, I wouldn't post in here if I hadn't played it. And I find 'its a WoW clone' and 'no space game' to be pretty damned accurate descriptions for TOR. I'll not comment on WoW being an EQ clone. I never played EQ, so wouldn't know. if you don't think that WoW with lightsabers is an accurate description of TOR, which game did you not play - TOR or WoW? It must be one of them. If you had played both, then you would see the same thing.

As for why I played it, I'm a much bigger SW fan than a Trek fan, and I hoped I was wrong, and that the game would turn out to be fun after all. Unfortunately, the only part of the game I found enjoyable was when I was stuck in dialogue with an NPC. The gameplay mechanics are identical to those found in WoW, and I got sick of WoW after spending 4 years there, and that style of space combat got old in about 1995.

The grouping mechanics you bring up are, again, pretty much the same as WoW. The only difference is when the group is talking to someone, but that doesn't go with 'grouping mechanics' really. I would class that as part of the dialogue system. Or do you mean that you can only have 4 people in a group? Wow, such a huge, massive, difference.

I will admit, the class stories are something new to MMOs, and Bioware did a brilliant job with the dialogue for those stories (Sith Inquisitor's line "Of course, I didn't fail, I'm me!" was excellent, for example) but as I said in my previous post, while they are new to MMOs, they are not new to Bioware games. Bioware writes games to tell a story, and they do it well. Translating that into MMO gameplay means creating little instances all over the place and breaking up groups (or forcing them to repeat scenarios) if a group contains more than one of a class. While not major issues, they could still cause problems.

I'm one of Cryptic's biggest defenders, am I? That's not good news. If it is, then Cryptic is screwed, lol. Sure, I'll happily defend what I think they are doing right, but I'll not back anything that I think is a mistake. Like TOR, for example

Check out these pictures, and tell me that this class from TOR is not a copy/paste from WoW. Sure, they changed a few words, but the abilities are pretty much the same.

Picture One
Picture Two
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 916
02-03-2012, 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
Neither is TOR. I mean, just take a moment to play PvP in TOR and you'll see that the two games don't really compare.

TOR is a pretty common/typical MMORPG with the KOTOR story layered on top of it. It doesn't have much in common with WoW outside of the same types of things that WoW already has in common with games like Everquest.
You mean like the gameplay being identical?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 917
02-03-2012, 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bort1980 View Post
You mean like the gameplay being identical?
It's not though. Not even close. I can't shoot a single mortar volley in World of ********. Anywhere.

I also can't do a single arcane explosion anywhere in TOR. Not even on Hoth, where it would be awesomesauce.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 918
02-03-2012, 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
It's not though. Not even close. I can't shoot a single mortar volley in World of ********. Anywhere.

I also can't do a single arcane explosion anywhere in TOR. Not even on Hoth, where it would be awesomesauce.
Are you seriously telling us that you played TOR and didn't think 'This is just like playing WoW'?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 919
02-03-2012, 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bort1980 View Post
Are you seriously telling us that you played TOR and didn't think 'This is just like playing WoW'?
Yup. I played it and thought it was a cool multiplayer version of KOTOR.

It's not really like Azeroth at all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 920
02-03-2012, 06:00 AM
Not like Azeroth, I'll give you, but we were talking about the mechanics of how the game works, not the environment that the game is set in.

TOR is nothing like KotOR. They changed all of the systems. If TOR was like a multiplayer KotOR, then that would have been better. I thought the system they used for KotOR was a good system, based on an actual RPG system. TOR is nothing like that.
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