Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Playing STF's a lot as well as the Defera invasion zone, I am getting very very tired of how the Borg don't really look... Borg.
They look more like zombies and undead than borg!!!

The main problem with the Art of drones is that they only appear "partially" assimilated.
They got A LOT of skin showing for Borg, way too much skin, and thats not really very Borg.
The Borg have an exoplating that covers their entire body below the head, that protects most of their organic parts.
They would not go walking around with bare arms or legs when fully assimilated, especially not after what Data did to them in First Contact.

Ive made a little mockup here of how the futuristic STO borg SHOULD look.
http://startrek.alexraptor.com/images/realborg.jpg

As you can see, they still maintain their more futuristic style, while also looking a lot more BORG than they do at present.

Female drones also bug me a lot because they keep running around with their little delicate spines exposed.
I mean seriously? Picard would be having a field day with this, just reaching into the empty space and snapping their spines like twigs!!!
Female drones I'm afraid though would require a complete art overhaul from the ground up.
Because they look far too much like Borg Queen wannabe's than actual "Drones"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
12-29-2011, 12:18 PM
I have to agree with the OP. Would like to see Borg more representative of what have seen throughout the TV shows and the TNG movies. Would be low on priorities for the devs but perhaps something that can be done in a few years .
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
12-29-2011, 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim3822 View Post
I have to agree with the OP. Would like to see Borg more representative of what have seen throughout the TV shows and the TNG movies. Would be low on priorities for the devs but perhaps something that can be done in a few years .
I would agree but hope to change the time table up to a few Months not years. Since the old type of drones as used in the tutorial (I have never played any STF) look much more true to the IP, it is an existing resource and seems like it shouldn't be that hard to swap back. I was very impressed with the tutorial borg when I saw them and very disappointed with the zombie overhaul.

If they want to 'modernize' the borg a little to bring them up into the 25th century I'm cool with that,a s long as it is very smartly done (a tricky job to pull off).

Also I can understand more of a 'zombie' look for the parts of the ground invasinon where you are rescuing newly captured borg victems. If we are to rescue them from the borg then it makes perfect sense that we have caught them when they are not yet fully assimilated. Drawing on a more 'zombie' type of influence for those NPCs makes perfect sense and I support the use of 'Zombie' borg to help identify the 'newly borged/ potentially rescuable' NPCs in game.

But, if they plan to use the zombie look for all borg in game, then there seems to have been an intentional shift to a zombie look that is just another sign of the recent pattern of disrespect, mismanagement, and lack of faith in the strength of the IP. Going with the zombie look because someone is a bigger fan of zombie movies than they are of Star Trek and wants to use STO as a showcase for their love of all things zombie instead of a showcase for all things Trek.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
12-29-2011, 02:47 PM
Ummm the Borg have had the zombie look ever since the game launched.
The models have not been altered... at all, only the ships have recieved a graphical overhaul to bring them more in line with the IP.

Also, these Drones go against everything established in Canon in terms of visual.
First of all, exposing flesh in the manner they do is a bad move as it makes them more vulnerable.
Second, extrapolated from 29th century technolgy, the future of the Borg means LESS not MORE implants and technology as they seem to be in STO, much less organic.

But by far the biggest problem with the current look is that they become too much like monsters and just another bad alien.
They are trully more terrifying to behold when they still look more humanoid and the source species identifiable, letting one truly grasp that the Borg capture you and turn every part of your being into one of them.

The eyes are also not very good either(Remans had the same eyes, but when they got their overhaul they got normal eyes to bring them in line with the IP).
Borg Drones have proper eyes with an iris and have this frightening "Blank Stare".

All things considered, I think i would more than anything just have Cryptic "switch" over the Borg to the old style models.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
12-30-2011, 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
The models have not been altered... at all, only the ships have recieved a graphical overhaul to bring them more in line with the IP.
Yes they have. Rerun "State of Q" and you'll see what the older drones looked like. Pretty much just what were in the show, and what the engineering BOff looks like. Just retexes of normal humanoid bodies with some googly attachments on their heads.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
12-31-2011, 10:15 PM
did not read

*clicks on pic*

*blinks*

+1 LIKE !!!

...looks a lot more BORG like without the ...uhm... flesh parts...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
01-01-2012, 05:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aimtomisbehave
Yes they have. Rerun "State of Q" and you'll see what the older drones looked like. Pretty much just what were in the show, and what the engineering BOff looks like. Just retexes of normal humanoid bodies with some googly attachments on their heads.
No you don't understand.
When Season 4 launched the Borg ship models recieved a complete overhaul to make them more IP accurate.
Uncanon probes were replaced with canon ones.

However, the Borg Drones never recieved this, they still have exactly the same models as they did when the game launched.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
01-01-2012, 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Ummm the Borg have had the zombie look ever since the game launched.
The models have not been altered... at all, only the ships have recieved a graphical overhaul to bring them more in line with the IP.
I'm not sure if we are just arguing semantics or what. Just to be clear, by 'zombie look' I'm talking about two main things. 1) having more skin, flesh, etc, exposed, and 2) having design elements of line and color used in the 'robot' parts that suggest anatomical features. Like the light colored horizontal segmented armor plate design down the front of the abs that suggests an exposed spine, even though it is actually covered.

Maybe the problem is that you are using 'zombie' to refer to the details of the flesh 'programming animation/skin models' them selves, (e.g., what color tone the flesh is, how many wounds the flesh has) while I am thinking of 'zombie look' as being basically the opposite of an overall more 'robot look'.

From here on out I really can't understand what design you are in favor of or what one you are talking about. You seem to keep saying contradictory things. Please help me untangle this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Also, these Drones go against everything established in Canon in terms of visual.
First of all, exposing flesh in the manner they do is a bad move as it makes them more vulnerable.
Here it sounds like you are talking about the 'new' ground drones which you said don't exist because you say they have always looked the same. Okay lets, give you the benefit of the doubt about being consistent at least. You don't mean these new ones, you mean these, the only ground borg the game has ever had?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Second, extrapolated from 29th century technolgy, the future of the Borg means LESS not MORE implants and technology as they seem to be in STO, much less organic.
Here you seem to be saying that the STO ground borg have more implants and technology covering up their bodies than the cannon borg do from the shows. But up top you said that the problem with the STO borg was that they had too much flesh, skin exposed?

But you also say that in the future you believe it makes sense for the borg to have less implants and technology and that this should make the STO (2409) borg look less organic. Doesn't less implants and tech covering their bodies mean more skin exposed? Doesn't 'organic' = flesh, skin , etc. exposed and tech, implants = looking more 'mechanical' right? So wouldn't less implants and tech mean more skin exposed and wouldn't that mean that mean that less implants and tech would make them more organic, not less organic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
But by far the biggest problem with the current look is that they become too much like monsters and just another bad alien.
Here you suggest again that the current borg are some kind of recent revision to the original in game ground borg which has brought us to the current 'new' ground borg (as opposed to the 'old' not-current ground borg). But again, up top you clearly indicated that you believe
"the Borg have had the zombie look ever since the game launched.
The models have not been altered... at all"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
They are trully more terrifying to behold when they still look more humanoid and the source species identifiable, letting one truly grasp that the Borg capture you and turn every part of your being into one of them.
Now you seem to be in favor of "more humanoid" because it's a has a better 'fright factor'. Again, I assume that 'humanoid' = flesh, skin, etc exposed. But before you said that more flesh exposed was bad because it was "more vulnerable" and that in the future (2409) borg should look "less organic". Which are you in favor of... 'zombie borg' or 'robot borg'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
The eyes are also not very good either(Remans had the same eyes, but when they got their overhaul they got normal eyes to bring them in line with the IP).
Borg Drones have proper eyes with an iris and have this frightening "Blank Stare".
I admit, I've never stopped to look that close at the details. I'm usually too busy trying to avoid being assimilated. :p But again, maybe this means that your post is mostly talking about the animation model/"skin" details and not the overall amount of 'flesh' exposed vs 'robot parts'? (skin in terms of an art overlay, not skin in terms of 'flesh and tissue' even though the thing in question just happens to be a "skin/flesh" example of a 'skin/animation' overlay)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
All things considered, I think i would more than anything just have Cryptic "switch" over the Borg to the old style models.
Now I am totally lost. Now you say have cryptic go 'back' to the 'old' models. For ground models you said their had been no change. What would they "switch" back to if they never changed?

Or maybe you are talking about the space drones. But you said that those were changed to be "much more in line with the IP". Why would you suggest that they change back if the the new ones are more accurate to the IP?

I could really use some help here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
01-01-2012, 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcher-Soldier
I'm not sure if we are just arguing semantics or what. Just to be clear, by 'zombie look' I'm talking about two main things. 1) having more skin, flesh, etc, exposed, and 2) having design elements of line and color used in the 'robot' parts that suggest anatomical features. Like the light colored horizontal segmented armor plate design down the front of the abs that suggests an exposed spine, even though it is actually covered.

Maybe the problem is that you are using 'zombie' to refer to the details of the flesh 'programming animation/skin models' them selves, (e.g., what color tone the flesh is, how many wounds the flesh has) while I am thinking of 'zombie look' as being basically the opposite of an overall more 'robot look'.

From here on out I really can't understand what design you are in favor of or what one you are talking about. You seem to keep saying contradictory things. Please help me untangle this.




Here it sounds like you are talking about the 'new' ground drones which you said don't exist because you say they have always looked the same. Okay lets, give you the benefit of the doubt about being consistent at least. You don't mean these new ones, you mean these, the only ground borg the game has ever had?




Here you seem to be saying that the STO ground borg have more implants and technology covering up their bodies than the cannon borg do from the shows. But up top you said that the problem with the STO borg was that they had too much flesh, skin exposed?

But you also say that in the future you believe it makes sense for the borg to have less implants and technology and that this should make the STO (2409) borg look less organic. Doesn't less implants and tech covering their bodies mean more skin exposed? Doesn't 'organic' = flesh, skin , etc. exposed and tech, implants = looking more 'mechanical' right? So wouldn't less implants and tech mean more skin exposed and wouldn't that mean that mean that less implants and tech would make them more organic, not less organic?



Here you suggest again that the current borg are some kind of recent revision to the original in game ground borg which has brought us to the current 'new' ground borg (as opposed to the 'old' not-current ground borg). But again, up top you clearly indicated that you believe
"the Borg have had the zombie look ever since the game launched.
The models have not been altered... at all"



Now you seem to be in favor of "more humanoid" because it's a has a better 'fright factor'. Again, I assume that 'humanoid' = flesh, skin, etc exposed. But before you said that more flesh exposed was bad because it was "more vulnerable" and that in the future (2409) borg should look "less organic". Which are you in favor of... 'zombie borg' or 'robot borg'?



I admit, I've never stopped to look that close at the details. I'm usually too busy trying to avoid being assimilated. :p But again, maybe this means that your post is mostly talking about the animation model/"skin" details and not the overall amount of 'flesh' exposed vs 'robot parts'? (skin in terms of an art overlay, not skin in terms of 'flesh and tissue' even though the thing in question just happens to be a "skin/flesh" example of a 'skin/animation' overlay)



Now I am totally lost. Now you say have cryptic go 'back' to the 'old' models. For ground models you said their had been no change. What would they "switch" back to if they never changed?

Or maybe you are talking about the space drones. But you said that those were changed to be "much more in line with the IP". Why would you suggest that they change back if the the new ones are more accurate to the IP?

I could really use some help here.
think he means a more organic-curved flow to the look rather than a full out "blocky" cyber organisim with a full "shell" and just the right amount of and type of implants for each variation of drone, worker, etc. to beable to still identify them by sight.

and by switch back as in the models that are used in the Q mission and the tutorial area, those ones are from beta days.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
01-01-2012, 04:24 PM
Even in the tutorial mission you see the new borg.... its near the end where you beam to your ship and you see even npc talk about the "new more advance drone that is nothing like we have seen".

Also you still have more "classic" looking borg... just fail the optional in infected ground and you see the assimilated SF personal, they look very close to the show....

As for the look themself, I liked the new borg, way more realistic then the neopren suite borgs from the show.. they always looked silly imo and the borg queen was the first real borg for me, beegin nearly completly cybernetic with only a few parts that are biological.

Also zombies would imply they are dead and are 100% organic... that doesn'T apply at all to the borg we currently have... .you could say they look more like terminators.
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