Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I finally had 40 EDC together so i decided to test both guns on RedShirt first... and then went with the MACO Rifle on Holodeck.

*happy that i got my shiny*

the rifles look awesome, for the Phaser Rifle, i would have liked a CANON TNG Movie rifle a lot more... but maybe in the DS9 Series as a reward? (hint hint)


that emotion was directly followed by:

*eeew* this is NOT better than what i had before ...not at all!


Note: this is a review that directly compares the weapons on their own, NOT the Set Bonus, because that is still 80 EDC away, so i sit here right now trying to decide if i even want to use those guns for the next 80 STF's !

This should be a no brainer...
These are supposed to be special Anti Borg Gunz right?
Specially designed to be effective in STF's right?


no ...not realy


but first this is what i currently use:
1: The *Ghostbusters rifle* with chain lightning = awesome vs. Mobs
2: A Tetryon *Pumpgun* with Knockback and good AoE damage in primary and secondary fire.

both Weapons have slow firing high damage projectiles and an AoE Attack that can damage a whole Mob.
and my Pumpgun even has a anti [BORG] proc, so every borg the AoE damage touches gets an addition 15 damage.

The Ghostbusters rifle even seems to have a neat bug vs. Borg, so that primary and secondary fire have to be adapted to separately by the Borg (i guess the gun uses 2 different damage types?), which gives you maybe 2 or 3 extra bolts before you have to remodulate.




MACO Rifle + Omega Rifle primary fire:

3 Rapid Fire bolts (only difference is Phaser and Antiproton)

THE GOOD: thx to the anti-[BORG]-proc the gun does an extra 45 damage per button press *like*
THE BAD: the same 3 rapid fire bolts make the Borg adapt to the both guns in record time, so you have to remodulate pretty much every 2 - 3 Shots, which lowers the total DPS to rock bottom.
ANY high damage bolt gun can shoot more often and keep the DPS up longer over time.

With the complete Set, this might not be as big of a problem because of the faster remodulation buff (have not seen it in action yet! ), but without, it gimps the gun into uselessness... and i am still 80 STF runs away from those buffs, but i want to use the weapons when i unlock them.


Suggestion: change the way how Borg react to rapid fire weapons, don't make every single bolt count, but only the button press. This would be good for ALL rapid fire weapons in STO, so i would prefer this option.
Option 2 change it to a single high damage bolt weapon, but in that case, where would be the difference to a default Phaser Sniper Rifle? in the numbers only? no need for that.... also the existing visuals would be messed up by that.



MACO Rifle: Secondary Attack: Sniper

GOOD ...BUT NOT GOOD: it shows other players what borg drone you are targeting, a normal sniper rifle does the same with the Red Laserpointer... it just isn't as IN YOUR FACE. In theory this is good so others can either focus their fire on that point (applies to opening shot), or avoid killing it before you shoot and direct their dps somewhere else (applies to exposed low health enemies).
but In action... people are stupid and do the exact opposite every time -> if the people FAIL it is still a FAIL

THE BAD: The Sniper takes a long time to aim, neither my Tetryon Pumpgun nor my Ghostbuster rifle take that long to aim, i actually notice that i want to shoot exposed enemies, and other players kill them before my gun even Shoots. That is *normal* for a sniper, but not fun in Group Matches.
No Knockback. Knockback is NEEDED in the Infected Boss room to kick the Drones into the plasma, and it is needed in The Cure to keep worker drones away from touching the ...glowy things that shut the force fields down.

SUGGESTION: Make the secondary attack a High Density Beam please!
It is exploit and knockback, and also can hit multiple drones in line of fire, you might even make it load faster, it goes well with the rifles animation and you have a tiny chance to also hit other drones in line of fire.
And also you could get rid of the silly IN YOUR FACE target pointer... replace with blue laser pointer... just for example.


OMEGA Rifle Secondary: bolt spread (expose)

THE GOOD: AoE expose and damage, not tested in action, but hopefully on par with a Pumpgun Secondary Attack, at least in terms of expose and damage.

SUPER NEAT: smoking animation!

THE BAD: again no Knockback, no Knockdown. *see MACO Rifle

SUGGESTION: ...maybe try making this secondary attack a shotgun secondary AoE with knockdown. i know it's supposed to look and feel like a machine gun, but even todays Machineguns have optional grenade launchers. (yes i'm playing Battlefield 3, so what? ;P ).... i think this would be bad for the visual effect, but better for STF gameplay.
*Require some more thinking,
i don't like my own idea here, the visual is too awesome to replace, but i want a knockdown/knockback to go with it somehow...




the only thing i have no idea how to compensate would be the chain lightning of the Ghostbusters rifle.

my current gameplay style is to open with the Tetryon Pumpguns Secondary, it knocks a few Borg in the Mob down, +expose chance. then shoot the secondary of the Ghostbusters rifle at the last Borg in the mob so the chain lightning does additional flanking damage to the borg in front -> that pretty much kills the whole Mob in Normal Difficulty STFs. Only the occasional one elite drone will be left standing.




Please make these STF guns better for players who do not have the Set Bonus yet, the super fast adapting just makes them painful to use, and no Knockback is a no go.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
12-22-2011, 11:39 AM
Personally, I believe the whole problem lies in the way adaptation is handled: It was introduced after the change happened to make guns fire more often, to make the "Shooter Mode" more viable.
However, adaptation did not take this change into account. The way it works, by counting each shot up to an "Adapted" meter, would have worked fine, if the weapons stayed higher base damage, lower frequency of fire.

Now with the STFs also getting more "arcade"-ish, more shooting is necessary. The STF weapons show the desire to comply with that design aim.
This creates a problem:

Higher burst fire is useless, and spike damage is king, because you have to remodulate your weapons less frequently.
This consequence also carries with it the problem that people with random weapons that only have high DPS numbers, but low spike capability are practically not contributing to a group going through the current incarnations of STFs.

I think the solution lies not in changing the weapons, but rather in the way adaptation works:
Instead of making each shot count towards adaptation, make only one trigger pull, aka burst, count towards it.

This would make DPS numbers on weapons actually mean something again.
This would also again free people to use weapons they want to use and be effective regardless of this choice.


(Oh, and I actually like the sniper rifle - I always thought those pushback rifles were kind of lame, sorry)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
12-24-2011, 08:31 AM
Agree with the adaptation handling. But these weps just suck for thier supposed use. Give me snipers..... Better yet, drop adaption and put the nodes back in. How about the TR for the gun, buffed a bit.

Anyone with a clue in the old stf's use twin snipers or shotguns, and only used primary attack to finish off a low health mob. The pace was also slower then, now its a zerg fest. I have full maco xi, and prefer my old set way better. I just wish that i could use my dual pistols, since they are my usual wep on my main sci.

Dont have any maco or omega on my tac, and actually dont see a reason to change, since she can 1 shot alot of different lvl mobs.......using snipers...... ( besides grinding 2k more stf's for the stuff )
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
12-26-2011, 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by x.j
Personally, I believe the whole problem lies in the way adaptation is handled: It was introduced after the change happened to make guns fire more often, to make the "Shooter Mode" more viable.
However, adaptation did not take this change into account. The way it works, by counting each shot up to an "Adapted" meter, would have worked fine, if the weapons stayed higher base damage, lower frequency of fire.

Now with the STFs also getting more "arcade"-ish, more shooting is necessary. The STF weapons show the desire to comply with that design aim.
This creates a problem:

Higher burst fire is useless, and spike damage is king, because you have to remodulate your weapons less frequently.
This consequence also carries with it the problem that people with random weapons that only have high DPS numbers, but low spike capability are practically not contributing to a group going through the current incarnations of STFs.

I think the solution lies not in changing the weapons, but rather in the way adaptation works:
Instead of making each shot count towards adaptation, make only one trigger pull, aka burst, count towards it.

This would make DPS numbers on weapons actually mean something again.
This would also again free people to use weapons they want to use and be effective regardless of this choice.


(Oh, and I actually like the sniper rifle - I always thought those pushback rifles were kind of lame, sorry)
This is sort of in game already. The reason the Pulsewave's are so effective against the Borg is every attack is a single burst of damage whereas weapons like Wide Beam pistols are managed as a different attack on each target, giving you more shots between remodulations. You can see this especially well with Wide Beams if you fire on a cluster of targets; you'll see a crit on one but the other targets will be a basic hit whereas the same attack from a pulsewave will be a crit on all of them.
I like the adaptation mechanic but don't like the way it forces everyone to the same couple of weapons to the exclusion of all others, right now Sniper Rifles, Pulsewaves and Compression Pistols are the only weapons worth touching for the STFs but it'd be nice to be able to use something like a Minigun, even if it did come with a longer remodulation or reduced number of bolts to offset the AoE damage they're capable of.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
01-05-2012, 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Militis View Post
*snip* but it'd be nice to be able to use something like a Minigun, even if it did come with a longer remodulation or reduced number of bolts to offset the AoE damage they're capable of.
I was using a Tetryon minigun in my Infected run last night and I thought it actually worked quite well. I do rotate with an AP pump action () which seems to have been ok.

Another thing that may have me hanging off on the purchase is JMan's review of these ground sets (Space seems to be close to heading to tribble). The only thing I don't want, is to have slaved away for my 100 EDC's, only to have what I purchase changed to a point I no longer like it - not to be confused with nerf, as Jeremy had stated that if anything, they would be made more powerful/useful...
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