Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
01-05-2012, 01:09 PM
While it is nice to have some consistency, which sticking to canon material does provide, it also limits the amount of material STO can use. Canon material for the Orion race is limited, vague, or downright umplausable. It is why I decided to use the non-canon Mem Beta material to come up with a background for my Orion instead of the sketchy Mem Alpha stuff. With Mem Beta I had details I could work with that was lacking in Mem Alpha.


It has been stated that STO hasn't stuck to strictly canon itself. I don't know for certain if this is true or not, I'm not an expert on all things Star Trek, but if it is I say more power to them. If there is more enriching material out there available that is non-canon that will benefit the playerbase then I am all for them grabbing the IP and using it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
01-05-2012, 01:20 PM
[quote=mister_dee]It would depend on how sensitive CBS will consider the matter however some aspects like the clothing would probably be more problematic than perhaps some additional skin tones.
However in case of that when we look at our own variations of skin tones it depends on the amount of melanin in our skin.
Melanin is brownish black and as a result most skin colours are basically some variation of brown, sometimes darker, sometimes lighter while the somewhat "pinkish" component comes from the layers under the one carrying the melanin (unless I got that somehow wrong) .
So people with little to no melanin in their skin don't appear totally white as a result.

But that would mean, unless Orion physiology is totally different, that their skin would be a variation of green like ours are variations of brown.
Orange is only "related" to green via the primary colour of yellow so the only way I think this would work would be that the basic skin colour of Orions is actually yellow with variations going into "blue" and "red" via green and orange respectively. Which would only work if the skin under the layers carrying the Orion equivalent of Melanin were of a different colour than our "pink"...right?[/QUOTE

I get the point you are making with the melanin and skin tone but I also understand Star Trek is a ficticional universe with intergalatic space travel, warp drives, aliens, and other far out imaginings. These have all had plausable explainations attached to them to make them more believable so I am sure someone out there can come up with a plausable reason for an orangish skinned Orion.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
01-05-2012, 02:26 PM
I see no reason NOT to add those skin tones to the color pallete. But NO special features. My reasoning is that I see quite a few "pink skin" Orions running around. If I was a beginner player, I would easily mistake those characters as humans. Only by looking at their character info is their species revealed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
01-06-2012, 01:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumStar
While it is nice to have some consistency, which sticking to canon material does provide, it also limits the amount of material STO can use. Canon material for the Orion race is limited, vague, or downright umplausable. It is why I decided to use the non-canon Mem Beta material to come up with a background for my Orion instead of the sketchy Mem Alpha stuff. With Mem Beta I had details I could work with that was lacking in Mem Alpha.


It has been stated that STO hasn't stuck to strictly canon itself. I don't know for certain if this is true or not, I'm not an expert on all things Star Trek, but if it is I say more power to them. If there is more enriching material out there available that is non-canon that will benefit the playerbase then I am all for them grabbing the IP and using it.
Think of it as some kind of tree, you use what was shown on screen as the root and then go from there.
You inherit the knowledge from the root and then enrich what you have from there.
Every company did basically that and of course depending in when they created their materials they used a different amount of canon material as their basis, in case of the old FASA stuff that was TOS and the first three (later there was a supplement for the 4th and then one for the 1th season of TNG) movies.
However since the creators of things canon felt no obligation to recognise what FASA had created, for example FASA's backstory of the Klingons and Kahless is radically different.

There is also the problem that every branch is isolated from the others unless a license is purchased to allow a "connection" between then.
Interplay did that for their Starfleet Command (SFC) series: they had the license for TOS and the first six movies and also a license to use material created for Star Fleet Battles (SFB) license held by Amarillo Design Bureau.
The SFB, which predates the first movie, was based only on TOS and some elements of TAS and then developed its own and completely isolated story both for the time before and after the events of TOS.
Hence SFB (and SFC since it follows the same storyline) has a very different history for the events after the 3rd season of TOS and the "General War" that never erupted in canon Trek.

In case of STO, well it's true Cryptic made some kind of deal with Pocket Books which allows then to use some their material as well, otherwise there would be no Luna and no mention of the IKS Gorkon in "The Path to 2409".
But it's just some elements since Cryptic chose not to include the events of the "Destiny" novels into their backstory for STO.
But some bits and pieces from other novels like the House Ozhpri Blood Wine reference can still be found in STO (in the "First City Tutorial"). But it's appearently restricted to stuff license from Pocket Books.

I still don't see sticking with canon as a restriction since you can still do what you want as long as you don't contradict what's already there.
Other companies before have managed to come up with their own ideas without copying what companies before them had come up with while avoiding contradicting canon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
01-06-2012, 01:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumStar
I get the point you are making with the melanin and skin tone but I also understand Star Trek is a ficticional universe with intergalatic space travel, warp drives, aliens, and other far out imaginings. These have all had plausable explainations attached to them to make them more believable so I am sure someone out there can come up with a plausable reason for an orangish skinned Orion.
That's just me overanalysing stuff.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
01-06-2012, 07:20 AM
My problem with sticking to strictly canon as far as Orions are concerned is the canon material has very litttle lnformation regarding their society and culture. The only details we really have about them that are canon is depicted in the ENT episode "Bound". The information portrayed in that single episode is a convoluted, unnecessary, conspiratorial, desceptive mess. Why go to all the trouble of having the female Orions pretend to be slaves when in actuality it is the men who are the slaves? It is a ridiculous unnecessary deception. And if the female Orion's phermones were that powerful as to dominate men of every species then wouldn't they already rule the galaxy? The information we have in "Bound" seems like a hastily thrown together depiction of Orion culture that has very little plausibility. The old PnP RPG material has far more details and plausible material to work with, especially for STO's RP crowd, and is the reason I chose it over canon to work up a bio and background for my Orion character. STO should aquire FASA's IP lisence so they have better material they can work with too.

In order for any Sci Fi material to be accepted by an audience/reader it must be based on plausible elements the audience is familiar with, things we see in nature or has a basis in technology/science we can grasp. Sci Fi that doesn't follow this rule and goes to far out there is not accepted by the mainstream audience. This is the reason for every series of Star Trek a team of people were hired to explain how the technology worked by combining real science principles along with theory and a little imagination.

Having stated the above fact it makes more sense for the Orions attitude towards slavery, as portrayed in the FASA material, be based on a race/caste system (Something we have seen in human societies) rather than the episode of "Bound" where we have a unnecessary, unplausible explainantion for Orion slavery. It makes more sense for the Orions to have a tradition of slavery where both men and women of their own species are enslaved and would explain their cavalier attitude towards enslaving other races. If they have no problem making slaves of their own then other races would be fair game too.

And does it make more sense that Orion phermones are used by both genders to heighten libdo in the opposite sex to attract mates/mating and used to seduce those of other races as depicted in the FASA material? Or should we go way out on the limb with the all powerful "Bound" phermones that enslave a persons mind and only the female gender has them? The former explaination we see in insects we are familiar with and are used by these insects in the same manner and by both genders. The latter is an overpowered stretch of the imagination. Also STO has itself deviated from the canon material by making the trait 'seduce",which mimics the Orion phermone thing, available to both Orion genders. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheromone
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
01-10-2012, 05:55 PM
It says on that same page that the Orions joined the Feds. RLY?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
01-10-2012, 09:18 PM
Unless someone else has posted this.

Memory Beta is a non-canon StarTrek wikipedia.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
01-10-2012, 11:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mondo80 View Post
It says on that same page that the Orions joined the Feds. RLY?
Take what's useful and furthers the storyline you have and leave the rest. Cryptic has that option if they aquire the IP. And that's what they need is options since what we have with canon is limited.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
01-11-2012, 12:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyxium
Unless someone else has posted this.

Memory Beta is a non-canon StarTrek wikipedia.
Yes we know it isn't canon but Cryptic has aquired other IP's and deviated from canon so why cant we do it with the Orions and give the players more options. Basically all I was asking for was some more colors added to the palette skin tones and the abilitty to put some hair on Orion men. They necessarily don't have to use the FASA background on Orions, I took that liberty myself because of the slim pickings we have with canon. Although it would be nice if Cryptic did have some material they could elaborate on Orion Society and Culture.
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