Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
01-05-2012, 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
And yet people aren't supposed to be more bound to a single ship type in the new skill trees.

If it's that unwise for escorts to take, it really shouldn't be there.
Actually it's more like a skill that non-engineers shouldn't take.

Anyway, I question the point of taking it for PvE since (apparenlty) the resistance bonus it gives is either really small or doesn't exist.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
01-05-2012, 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitsuneRommel
Actually it's more like a skill that non-engineers shouldn't take.

Anyway, I question the point of taking it for PvE since (apparenlty) the resistance bonus it gives is either really small or doesn't exist.
You mean non-cruiser pilots.

Nothing about being an engineer implies that I'm flying a cruiser.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
01-05-2012, 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
You mean non-cruiser pilots.

Nothing about being an engineer implies that I'm flying a cruiser.


Perhaps he was referring to the Engineer's ability to Train BOffs in Repair Skills.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
01-05-2012, 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0Gambit0 View Post
I think you'll be standing in that line alone.

If you're running normal PVE you'd never need that skill and if your running STFs you'd never want that skill. (more so if on elite)

One Shots all over the place in Elite STFs now and using Threat Generation is like making a reservation for a re-spawn

I can't see anyone wanting to use the ground version of this skill at all with the way damage is handed out there now.

I think the last thing I 'd want is more things firing at me than I already have.

IMO Threat Generation both the ground and space versions need a major re-tool, the risk for using it is quite high and the reward for using it is almost non existent.

If Threat Generation increased your over all damage by 10% or your defense by 10% for each target that was damaging you then it might be worth the risk of using it.

Threat Generation is right up there with Subsystem Repair
Threat gen makes sense, potentially...

But instead of providing a slight damage resistance, it ought to be turned upside down and cap out damage.

So that small attacks still ping your health but so that, say, with 10 points invested, no attack will deal damage more than, say 75% of your health. In making you one shot proof, it opens you to tanking in Elite STFs provided you have a healer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
01-06-2012, 12:23 AM
I think the skill might have more utility if there were some way to turn it on and off. There really should be a general captain activatable skill that you get at low levels that increases threat generation by say 10%. Then this skill buffs that activatable skill.

Having you just do more threat all the time seems really limiting. Even if you're playing in a group, what if you have two cruisers and only want one to tank, but both are maxed out on threat generation? I think this definitely needs to be coupled with an activatable skill.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
01-06-2012, 12:40 AM
The idea behind it is a good one, but not so much its implementation. If tanks should be viable they need something to draw aggro when needed (!!!). Normal PvE doesn't require the skill, for (Elite) STFs it will be a guaranteed ticket to respawn and for PvP you'll only gain some damage resistance.

A better way would have been to make it an ability, that maybe can be boosted by skill investment, but not a passive that's always active. Even the tankiest cruiser can't take all that love it will get in Elite STFs. For ground, I don't know, I usually get aggro by just tossing out heals to others, I don't need an extra "shoot me" sign.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
01-06-2012, 01:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
I think the skill might have more utility if there were some way to turn it on and off. There really should be a general captain activatable skill that you get at low levels that increases threat generation by say 10%. Then this skill buffs that activatable skill.

Having you just do more threat all the time seems really limiting. Even if you're playing in a group, what if you have two cruisers and only want one to tank, but both are maxed out on threat generation? I think this definitely needs to be coupled with an activatable skill.
I think if we can't turn it on and off, it might make sense to act as a threat/shield reduction on certain ships and a threat/resistance increase on others.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
01-06-2012, 01:48 AM
I just used up my last 2 respecs, to not have that ability to be effective in Space or Ground.
As tact, that job is already tough, don't need to get any worse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by decker999 View Post
The idea behind it is a good one, but not so much its implementation. If tanks should be viable they need something to draw aggro when needed (!!!). Normal PvE doesn't require the skill, for (Elite) STFs it will be a guaranteed ticket to respawn and for PvP you'll only gain some damage resistance.

A better way would have been to make it an ability, that maybe can be boosted by skill investment, but not a passive that's always active. Even the tankiest cruiser can't take all that love it will get in Elite STFs. For ground, I don't know, I usually get aggro by just tossing out heals to others, I don't need an extra "shoot me" sign.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
01-06-2012, 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
See, I can see that.

My thinking is, a soloer or PvPer should take it anyway for the damage mitigation it offers and I'm eager to test it out further in my Prommie since I barely get a scratch in most fights while my other sections end up a bit too beat up for my tastes.
Galaxy-Retrofit, MVAM and Carrier pilots may also like it, as it could draw fire from their pets and allowing them to keep their firepower around. Though I believe pet survival is mostly at risk due to warp core explosions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak
I'm uncertain whether this skill is really worth taking. In a group, a cruiser can usually keep most things on them by using BFAW. I'm not sure if it's a good thing for them to draw even more aggro. In that case, if they get in any trouble, it will be difficult to get things off of them.

On the other hand, if they can actually keep enemies from breaking off on the escorts whenever they make their attack runs, it might be worthwhile.
If you can be assured that the "tank" will get the aggro, it can also mean that you don't have to worry as much about your own heals and healing yourself. Either you take more damage-oriented skills, trusting the Cruiser's survivability and the shorter time until enemies get destroyed, or you can safely use those heals on your Cruiser.

I could imagine that, if this _really_ works, you could ditch one Emergency Power to Shields in Group PvE on your Escort and replace it with a hull heal or extend shields, supporting the tank in his job.

But that may be idealistic and require a level of teamwork not usually found in STO. But maybe clearer roles defined by your skill selection help?

--

Of course, the open question is - does the skill really change anything notably? And does it achieve what we hoped to achieve?

I think some kind of "threat management" system where increased aggro gains also increases defense could help (and it would be interesting in PvP as well, if we define "aggro" primarily by how much damage you take.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
01-06-2012, 02:35 AM
Heh. Screw other players.

Why the heck would i, even in a cruiser specced char, WASTE points there? Especially after the pool of available points got cut down AGAIN.



If iwis hto keep a team mate alive while i min in a cruiser i do the following:

ES3 with full shield power. Tss with full aux. (and since these stack, every ship has them. Yes. escorts should have a dedicated es spider tank engi boff.)

screw threat generation.



heh. the points are better spent in skills that boost your damage and help you keep your escorts alive.

under any circumstance on any char.
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