Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 The latest Patch: My Analysis
01-06-2012, 03:55 AM
Well... As with most everything that comes down the pike of late this patch has been a serious mixed bag. However, it is not that great of a mixed bag.


The Good|

DOFF UI has gotten some NICE polish to graphics and to how it displays potential candidates for any given mission. I love these changes completely.

The ground skills have been cleaned up from their former utter mess and made more understandable and useful in general.

Threat Generation skills have been added.

The Skill Tree has been Split into Space and Ground.

The Clone Wars are over. (You know what I mean.)



The Bad|

The Skill Points have been Split between Space and Ground instead of each simply having is own pool.

Space skills got shuffled around and not always in a positive way.

Additional Space Skills exist now which seem fairly pointless, such as Driver Coil which should just be part of the ship not a skill.

Threat Generation skills are too high up in Tier. These should be a Tier I ability for certain. You are begging to have more hits to your face, this should not be something you have to spend a lot to achieve.

Ground Tactical Initiative has been brought in-line with the Space Counterpart which itself was another very unimpressive tactical Ability.



My Thoughts: This new skill system seems to punish Science Vessel Captains the most making it very very hard for them to deal any reasonable damage if they want to be worthwhile at their job as either a healer or a crippler. Considering they have the fewest weapons they are not really that deadly to begin with which makes this seem to be a rather uncalled for nerfing. Cruiser Pilots can now toughen up a lot and buy some crowd control but if they do they cannot shoot their way out of a wet paper bag... Escorts become even more glassy if not piloted by an Engineer. So far Engineers in Escorts are the luckiest type of Captain in this new mix.

The addition ground points to spend are nice and all... I do like the new skills down there but they are unneeded. I was able to run with next to nothing in ground and do just fine previously. Ground combat is far too fast paced for its own good. There is no time for strategy down there. It is just shoot and watch bodies hit the ground. Who needs skill when even non-tacticals can mow down enemies in one volley?

The change to Tactical Initiative... Devs say it was OP... Ok, well you let that stay OP for a rather long time huh? I will take your word that it was OP but even if it was OP it was one of the few things the Tactical Captain had as far as useful skills.


Let us look at Tactical Captains for a moment shall we?

Ground|

They get to beam down Tactical Support but these guys will beam up at the first MOMENT there is a lull in combat. If they beamed down and stayed until the skill cooled down or they died then they would be kind of useful but seems how they vanish if you stop getting shot for a mere blink of an eye they are not that helpful.

They get their Targeted Optics which is a solid and quickly refreshing skill.

They get their Fire on my Mark which is useful in PvP but against 95% of NPC's is a total waste of a button press and an animation considering that most enemies die in a few hits anyway.

They get their Strike Team which is just fine much like its counter parts.

Then they get Tactical Initiative... It used to give some instant gratification and get your skills up and running again. Now it shaves a couple of seconds off of your Cooldowns... Compared to Orbital Strike or Nanite Infestation this skill is pretty weak stuff. So instead of killing everything with my skills now I will kill them without my skills and have my skills cool down 10 seconds after everything is already dead... Ye-ah... hhmmm...


Space| (This is where they really hurt)

Attack Pattern Alpha: This is a great skill. Fits them very well and is useful. I wish it had the Movement Debuff Killing power of Omega though. Otherwise it is just great.

Tactical Fleet: Seems how all these skills now ONLY effect the person using them they are all a bit weak. This one is not horrible and it pairs well with Attack Pattern Alpha so not much to say about it. It is ok and working fine besides being a self-buff-only.

Fire on my Mark: A nice skill somewhat like a lesser version of Sensor Sweep. Tying it to Ship Sensors though is a bit mean considering that Ship Sensors is a decently expensive Skill and one only really useful for Science Ships otherwise. So what, you are really trying to push Tacticals towards Science Ships when their real home of choice should be Cruisers? How odd...

Go Down Fighting: ... It is powerful... To an extent... However, it is not what I would call a very useful skill. You have to be damaged to make any use of it. If you are in an Escort and are damaged enough to use this it will get you probably one or two volleys before you go POP. Cruisers can take advantage of this skill but just in general when compared to gems like Subnucleonic Beam, Miracle Worker, Photonic Fleet, even EPS Power Transfer or Nadeon Inversion this skill is pretty weak. Why even bother with a Cool Down for a skill that only gets very notable when you are so damaged? I find that I almost never get a chance to use this skill and may as well not put it on my bar.

Tactical Initiative: It decreases the cooldown of JUST your Tactical BOFFS by a little bit... Honestly... It is not very impressive. It helps Cruisers to dish out a bit more damage than normal and Science Ships too but with Escorts you have so many Tactical CD's that it is not that important that you speed them up. Chances are you will CD your skills faster than your Torps by just a tiny bit. If it decreased the CD of all your BOFFS then maybe it would be powerful. If it loweredt he CD of at least Attack Pattern Alpha and Fire on my Mark as well as the Tactical BOFFS then maybe it would be potent. Again, compare this to the other Captain types and you begin to see how much more potent they are.


A friend of mine often complains that she is using a Tactical Captain and they are worthless. It is not entirely true but I must admit as I play all three types that Science and Engineers are a lot better 90% of the time. The Extra DPS a Tactical can Bring is usually a paltry sum compared to the staying power and energy management of an Engineer and the sudden Fleet, Debuffs, and Buffs the Science Captain brings with them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
01-06-2012, 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkuu_Akagan
Ground Tactical Initiative has been brought in-line with the Space Counterpart which itself was another very unimpressive tactical Ability.
It's still a ver useful ability but it just needs to be used differently. Instead of popping it after everything's on cooldown pop it before and they'll come back up sooner. I'm getting more out of it than I was previously where it was there to get SE back quickly when I got myself into some trouble, now I use it whenever It comes off cooldown and there's something that needs to die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkuu_Akagan
Fire on my Mark: A nice skill somewhat like a lesser version of Sensor Sweep. Tying it to Ship Sensors though is a bit mean considering that Ship Sensors is a decently expensive Skill and one only really useful for Science Ships otherwise. So what, you are really trying to push Tacticals towards Science Ships when their real home of choice should be Cruisers? How odd...
Last time I checked this on Tribble (a week or so ago) Sensors didn't help the DR debuff side of things, only the stealth sight buff which is very weak. Personally, I haven't touched it with any of my Tacs, FoMM is only there for the DR debuff as the stealth buff is so weak, especially on non Science ships.
IIRC an Aux battery gave better stealth sight than the FoMM buff did it was so weak but the same is true of Sensor Scan now too so I guess it's deliberate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
01-06-2012, 07:35 AM
I do have to say I like the skills re-vamp it looks more like the original Beta version idk been so long ago.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
01-06-2012, 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Militis View Post
It's still a ver useful ability but it just needs to be used differently. Instead of popping it after everything's on cooldown pop it before and they'll come back up sooner. I'm getting more out of it than I was previously where it was there to get SE back quickly when I got myself into some trouble, now I use it whenever It comes off cooldown and there's something that needs to die.



Last time I checked this on Tribble (a week or so ago) Sensors didn't help the DR debuff side of things, only the stealth sight buff which is very weak. Personally, I haven't touched it with any of my Tacs, FoMM is only there for the DR debuff as the stealth buff is so weak, especially on non Science ships.
IIRC an Aux battery gave better stealth sight than the FoMM buff did it was so weak but the same is true of Sensor Scan now too so I guess it's deliberate.
It is somewhat useful but compared to other Captain abilities are notably more useful IMO.

Sensor Scan does a decent job with Stealth Sight even if it is utterly useless outside of very certain PvP. I will have to look at FOMM more but that was the only skill that seems to effect it at all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
01-06-2012, 11:51 AM
There are very few abilities affected by skills now, I wouldn't be surprised if FoMM received no buff outside of the stealth buff. Sensor Scan is useful everywhere IMO, even now it's a -67 DR debuff on up to 15 (IIRC) targets. That's impressive for a skill with a fairly short cooldown.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
01-06-2012, 12:31 PM
I was wondering, is it possible that we could change the skills again in January and have to respec again?? This is getting really annoying. If they were just going to change it anyways, why did they do that in December??? And it they didnt want to do it in December, why do it the month after they revamped the skills!!!! I cant even figure what I want to do with the skills now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
01-06-2012, 01:00 PM
Quote:
Attack Pattern Alpha: This is a great skill. Fits them very well and is useful. I wish it had the Movement Debuff Killing power of Omega though. Otherwise it is just great.

Tactical Fleet: Seems how all these skills now ONLY effect the person using them they are all a bit weak. This one is not horrible and it pairs well with Attack Pattern Alpha so not much to say about it. It is ok and working fine besides being a self-buff-only.
These two are part of the Pre-Alpha buff which includes GDF but is preceeded by TI3.

Quote:
Fire on my Mark: A nice skill somewhat like a lesser version of Sensor Sweep. Tying it to Ship Sensors though is a bit mean considering that Ship Sensors is a decently expensive Skill and one only really useful for Science Ships otherwise. So what, you are really trying to push Tacticals towards Science Ships when their real home of choice should be Cruisers? How odd...
So far I have noticed no amount of increase in this skills effectiveness based on its skill level.

Quote:
Go Down Fighting: ... It is powerful... To an extent... However, it is not what I would call a very useful skill. You have to be damaged to make any use of it. If you are in an Escort and are damaged enough to use this it will get you probably one or two volleys before you go POP. Cruisers can take advantage of this skill but just in general when compared to gems like Subnucleonic Beam, Miracle Worker, Photonic Fleet, even EPS Power Transfer or Nadeon Inversion this skill is pretty weak. Why even bother with a Cool Down for a skill that only gets very notable when you are so damaged? I find that I almost never get a chance to use this skill and may as well not put it on my bar.
It is a aprt of normal pre-alpha buffing, but I agree, it needs a relook to see if its still a effective skill for the Tac class. Of course it is the designed "hoepfully save one butt skill" for the Tac- maybe it just needs a defensive resist bonus.

Quote:
Tactical Initiative: It decreases the cooldown of JUST your Tactical BOFFS by a little bit... Honestly... It is not very impressive. It helps Cruisers to dish out a bit more damage than normal and Science Ships too but with Escorts you have so many Tactical CD's that it is not that important that you speed them up. Chances are you will CD your skills faster than your Torps by just a tiny bit. If it decreased the CD of all your BOFFS then maybe it would be powerful. If it loweredt he CD of at least Attack Pattern Alpha and Fire on my Mark as well as the Tactical BOFFS then maybe it would be potent. Again, compare this to the other Captain types and you begin to see how much more potent they are.
I disagree here. Having my Attack patterns, CRF/CSV, HYT/TS reduced by 50% on average is a huge bonus for those get-in-kill-something-get-out moments. Couple it with PO and the ability turn around ship wide is really fast as TI gets the Tacpowers and PO gets almost everything else.

Quote:
A friend of mine often complains that she is using a Tactical Captain and they are worthless. It is not entirely true but I must admit as I play all three types that Science and Engineers are a lot better 90% of the time. The Extra DPS a Tactical can Bring is usually a paltry sum compared to the staying power and energy management of an Engineer and the sudden Fleet, Debuffs, and Buffs the Science Captain brings with them.
Your observation here is possibly (maybe) the reason why the restructure of the new tree seems to favor Tacs first, Engineers second and then Science toons, as an attempt to re-aligned those classes into doing what they are suppossed to do best.
Its a theory of mine.
This way the Mage(science) is not out killing all willy-nilly like the terminator with the Cleric(engineer) while the fighter (tactical) is stuck healing becuase his gun isn't as good as the others by comparison.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
01-06-2012, 02:00 PM
Driver coil boosts the speed of both Quantum slipstream & the Borg Engines (and soon the MACO engines) to somewhat approaching ludicrous speed plus it lowers the impact of going at full impulse.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
01-06-2012, 02:11 PM
It also makes full impulse quicker. Today I was chasing the Nandi and was at 129 engine speed in full impulse. I passed the Nandi and had to wait for him - all with only 4 ranks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
01-06-2012, 05:01 PM
tac init on the ground no longer fully recharges skills u used. it puts my s ecurity escort to 53 seconds from 3m...have to wait 53 seconds. so no more 4 escorts on the ground as by the time it couints down the 53, your other two have beamed up. So no more red shirt army.

i agree. tac captains are a niche crowd. in pvp and pve. really good pilots know their role and are very effective in the team, with the support from cruisers and science ships. Science ships and cruisers, are more versatile and flexible, able to hang around longer in a fight, take more damage, heal more, so its just like the argument on star trek when they introduced the defiant, obrien didn't like it because it wasn't as versatile as a galaxy class, but kira loved it because it packed a punch and that is all she wanted.

so if your playing it and trying to play it as a sci or cruiser your playing it wrong, you will die and you will be useless. But played effectively, it is critical to the team.
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