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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
01-12-2012, 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by malianx View Post
Read, Experiment, Try.

The pattern I'm seeing is everyone wanting a cookie cutter build handed to them. It is -not- that complicated a system. READ.
Wow, thanks ever so much for your insightful reply.

Your free to move along now...find another thread to be unhelpful in.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
01-12-2012, 06:31 PM
"Teach a man to fish."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
01-12-2012, 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by malianx View Post
"Teach a man to fish."
Your quote in inapplicable, given you haven't "taught" anyone anything.

Again, thanks for playing---kindly run along now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
01-12-2012, 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZSteel
I haven't played the game in months...I came back to check out the changes and the first thing I had to do was respec my character. While this isn't usually a big deal for me, it is something of a challenge now because the metrics changed a bit as did how they impact game play. Prior to my vacation from the game, I had zero issues in PvE (as most people experience) and I could "survive" in PvP. In addition to the respect, I can't help but notice that the stats are different for weapons and consoles.

Now that I had to respec, PvE is unchanged for me but PvP is back to square one. I find even surviving PvP is an issue.

I'm not going to bring up my personal opinion on the "equality" or lack thereof in klingon ships or tech vs Federation ships and tech...I'd just like to hear from people (both Federation and Klingon players alike) that have experience with these new changes and can offer some pointers in the way of character and ship setup.

My goal is to setup a Defiant and a Sovereign ship capable of performing well in PvP. My main character is a level 50 Engineer. I am going to respec the toon yet again, this time armed with tips from you guys. ideally, I'd like both ships to tank as much as each class will allow while still delivering enough damage to be an irritant to any Klingon ships there!

I can recall from before these changes, it was really very satisfying, almost as much as blowing the enemy away, to stay there, taking all the enemy fire from 2 or 3 of them and not going anywhere.

So, the only fixed variables are the toon, the ship classes and the limits of the game.

Any suggestions?
Here is my suggestion for the defiant. I annoy a lot of klinks.
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...efiantRBuild_0
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
01-12-2012, 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamRadio18
Here is my suggestion for the defiant. I annoy a lot of klinks.
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...efiantRBuild_0
Looks good, one question, are the global cool-downs on your shared skills ever present an issue for you in PvP? As an Escort, your the first to be targeted by the dreaded Bird of Prey, Raptor and just about every other Klingon ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
01-12-2012, 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZSteel
Looks good, one question, are the global cool-downs on your shared skills ever present an issue for you in PvP? As an Escort, your the first to be targeted by the dreaded Bird of Prey, Raptor and just about every other Klingon ship.
The global cool-downs are what keep me alive. You see, you always want to be running EPtS. So, you have 1 & 2. What I didn't mention is that I use the complete borg set. Which may change since they messed with them, but still. The extra power really helps the regen of my shields.

Now for tactical.

THY, BO, and CRF all have a 30 sec cool-down. BUT, if you have another one of the same ability, it sends it into a 15 sec cool-down. So you just keep switching between the two. It takes a lot of concentration, because if you are off by 2 seconds, it will mess you up, so you have to be quick. But you are are good, this combination is very deadly.

So here is a common example that happens to me in Kerrat:
I am flying along minding my own business, and right behind me, a klink decloaks. EPtS is running. I hit TT, then my other buffs. Fire on my mark, APO, APA, BO 3, THY 2, CRF 2. So at this time I am about 8-10km away from the klink. I slow down, turn sharp, and then fire!!!! Klink is dead. I have my weapons on autofire, so while I am still moving forward, and turning, my rear turrets are firing at the klink, weakening his shields, even if it is just a little. If that doesn't kill him, then I will hit BO 1, CRF 1, and THY1. That usually finishes them off. This is a very effective build, but it takes practice. The build also doesn't show the consoles I use.

Eng: RCS. EPS, +35 shield cap.

Sci: Cloak, borg

Tac: All Anti-proton mag regulators.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
01-12-2012, 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenchuan View Post
I'm so confused too!!!!!!

I can figure out the what does what stuff but it real confusing spendin my 300K points without having actually played with the new systems... I ran out of points before I even got to Admiral level skills...

I just dont know HOW to spend the points.... does this need 3 ? 6? 9?

I am a tactical cruiser captain so from past expeirence it would be nice to train say some of the skills that improve turn rate. But what I have no concept of is is say 3 sufficent or would you not see any real improvement unless you bump it up to 6.

Also in the past you could get more bang for training a higher level skill and skimming over a similar lower level one or vice versa.

We were helped orginally because you couldnt level without training so you had to spend X points on Lt and Y points on commander.

Hard to find good info since most guides are either pretty remedial or hopelessly out of date.

The link already provided earlier in this thread that goes to STO Academy's wonderful Skill Planner, which is fully detailed and lets you play around with your skills nicely, though there isn't any way to -test- those skills... but that's partly why you play around with things as you level up. Having played since the beginning, I've got a few respec tokens saved up, so I don't mind playing with skills here and there...
I've noticed one thing that may be important to note; unlike with the old system, leveling a skill all the way to 9 doesn't seem to get you many special abilities; it's mostly 3 and 6 you want to look at, I believe (haven't fiddled around fully with all the options, so I'm not 100% sure).
That said, all the skills in this new skill list (as compared to the old system) are in many cases several skills you'd had before that were all spread out now compacted into one. That's mostly what this new skill list has done, actually. Made it easier to level up without having to scramble at the end-game to save points to put into weapon energy specialties, for instance.
Now, you just level up skills that increase your damage across the board, and the reason to use different weapon types is for the weapon effects... not necessarily how well you can use them.
Or for a previous example given about turning rates, you can specifically affect that by two abilities that directly affect Warp and Full Impulse speed/turn rates, as well as normal Impulse speed and combat turn rates, rather than have to dabble in about a half dozen skills to get the general effect that these two will provide.
I should really hammer home that this next part is strictly my own opinion, and not at all something I wish to force on anyone (ie, if you don't agree with it, ignore this and don't pick it apart); Leveling a skill up all the way up to 9 seems to be a waist of points that could otherwise be used to buff out something else either higher up the rank-chain or on the same tier of skills. The diminishing returns of leveling your skills out makes leveling -any- skill past 6 seem either wasteful or greedy. Maybe both.

Ground skills got simplified the most of all, really. It boils down into category skills, I guess. One skill you can level up grants bonuses to a veritable host of usable ground abilities, whereas the old system would have some skills that only benefited maybe two or three abilities at best. The new system allows for a broader understanding of the system, and a tighter control of what you're going to do in-game with your character.
Rather than focusing on the skill-play of the game, this new system allows the player to really delve into the items and the equipment, and which ones are better. Be they ground or space items or equipment, your items are defined not by what you can do for them, but what they can do for you.

One thing I feel I absolutely need to point out: If you play as a tank, or if you like to play classes that technically -shouldn't- tank, but you can make anyway...? You'll want to pay attention to the Threat Control skills for both Ground and Space. This is pretty much a must-have for drawing attention to yourself and keeping it on you. Not having any points in these skills doesn't make you appear harmless, it just puts you on the lower ends of the threat spectrum to any PvE opponents.

Those pesky Patrol missions have been broken up and made into entirely optional missions that you acquire by flying past systems that you haven't visited or that are related to things you've been assigned to do in that sector. As an example, I was assigned a Patrol mission for one specific system, did it, turned in the mission, and didn't see any more in my mission journal. Yet, as I passed by a local system a few light years away from my completed mission, I see the option to Patrol this place. So I flew around all of that Sector, and gobbled up experience points for doing missions we'd -had- to do before, and in large chunks before receiving end result experience points... Each system Patrol is its own mission, and offers its own experience. As I indicated, you can just chew up experience points in a relatively short time of gaming by doing all the Patrol missions you can.

The Duty Officer system is worth noting as a completely awesome addition to the game. It basically allows you to further fine-tune your ship's performance (and your ground performance) by getting and using better and better Duty Officers. The Assignment system aside, each Duty Officer has special abilities that come into play when you use your Bridge Officer abilities (ground or space) as well as your own. Some simply reduce cool-down time. Some give you extra effects. Some do both. Some do next to nothing. They're a useful resource, and worth looking into, to get that extra edge whether you play PvE -or- PvP.

In closing, I'd really have to say that the game's changes since the early days have brought on a broader awareness of the important things around you, such as your equipment, the missions you can accomplish, even the personnel on your own ship! If Cryptic hurries up and gives us that working Shuttlebay they talked about a while back, I'll be one supremely happy and contented nerd.

PS: I don't post often on the forums because of my tendency to, well, write large blocks of text. I've been told by some that not everyone wants or appreciates that... but in this case, I felt in-depth answers to questions asked were warranted.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
01-12-2012, 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightsgale View Post
The link already provided earlier in this thread that goes to STO Academy's wonderful Skill Planner, which is fully detailed and lets you play around with your skills nicely, though there isn't any way to -test- those skills... but that's partly why you play around with things as you level up. Having played since the beginning, I've got a few respec tokens saved up, so I don't mind playing with skills here and there...
I have a few myself but prefer not to spend them haphazardly when the forum can offer help to spend wisely.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightsgale View Post
I've noticed one thing that may be important to note; unlike with the old system, leveling a skill all the way to 9 doesn't seem to get you many special abilities; it's mostly 3 and 6 you want to look at, I believe (haven't fiddled around fully with all the options, so I'm not 100% sure).
I agree with you here....as do most of the people I've talked to on this subject.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightsgale View Post
I should really hammer home that this next part is strictly my own opinion, and not at all something I wish to force on anyone (ie, if you don't agree with it, ignore this and don't pick it apart); Leveling a skill up all the way up to 9 seems to be a waist of points that could otherwise be used to buff out something else either higher up the rank-chain or on the same tier of skills. The diminishing returns of leveling your skills out makes leveling -any- skill past 6 seem either wasteful or greedy. Maybe both.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightsgale View Post
One thing I feel I absolutely need to point out: If you play as a tank, or if you like to play classes that technically -shouldn't- tank, but you can make anyway...? You'll want to pay attention to the Threat Control skills for both Ground and Space. This is pretty much a must-have for drawing attention to yourself and keeping it on you. Not having any points in these skills doesn't make you appear harmless, it just puts you on the lower ends of the threat spectrum to any PvE opponents.
Can you define the advantage to being of a higher threat to nearby enemies? How does this facilitate being a tank? I for one have a difficult time comprehending how being the preferred target is advantageous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightsgale View Post
The Duty Officer system is worth noting as a completely awesome addition to the game. It basically allows you to further fine-tune your ship's performance (and your ground performance) by getting and using better and better Duty Officers. The Assignment system aside, each Duty Officer has special abilities that come into play when you use your Bridge Officer abilities (ground or space) as well as your own. Some simply reduce cool-down time. Some give you extra effects. Some do both. Some do next to nothing. They're a useful resource, and worth looking into, to get that extra edge whether you play PvE -or- PvP.
I am just now exploring this area of the game...it almost seems too...encompassing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightsgale View Post
PS: I don't post often on the forums because of my tendency to, well, write large blocks of text. I've been told by some that not everyone wants or appreciates that... but in this case, I felt in-depth answers to questions asked were warranted.
I like long posts when they are well constructed as yours was.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
01-13-2012, 12:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZSteel
Can you define the advantage to being of a higher threat to nearby enemies? How does this facilitate being a tank? I for one have a difficult time comprehending how being the preferred target is advantageous.
Being a larger threat to nearby enemies makes you their focus, and they'll shoot at you... and -not- your teammates. Thus freeing them to focus on offensive tactics while you take the damage and dish the damage, like a, well, tank.
The Threat Control skills do offer a passive Damage Resistance bonus, but that's mostly so you can have a chance of keeping up with the increased damage coming your way.
Generally, this is really something only people who intend to perform largely in the team role of Tank should even -consider- putting points into; it's basically a waste of points to anyone who prefers to dish out their damage in short confrontations and end battles decisively by themselves, or offer DPS support in any given fleet action. The damage resistance passive bonus is small enough that it's really only effective when combined with the other damage reducing skills, and the two skills don't usually become available until skills start costing over 2000 per point. Certainly reason enough to me to carefully consider my roles.

As an example, -have- a Vice Admiral Engineer that's captain of an Assault Cruiser. He's not a Tank, but I'm probably going to respec him towards being one, when I'm done fiddling around with the Skill Planner at STO Academy.
Yet, my current Captain Science character that's captain of a Long Range Science Vessel? I'm not even going to bother putting any points into either of the Threat Control skills for her. Science characters just... they make terrible tanks, in my opinion. They -can- do it... but nowhere near as well as Engineers or even Tactical captains.
Have yet to really flesh out my Tactical experience, so I don't know whether the way I'd level a Tactical captain up might benefit from some Threat Control over none or not. I'll see, eventually.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
01-13-2012, 08:26 AM
You had originally asked for builds or suggestions. I've given you impressions on the changes of the system, as well as some basic suggestions, but no direct suggestions towards what you were originally asking about...

So! Please allow me to share my Skill Planner build that I created for building a non-tank extended combat Engineer (space or ground).

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...atEngineer_841
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