Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I know this has been brought up before. But i'd like to see the Sabre Class Escort and the Akira Class Escort Get a retrofit. We're seeing to many Defiant's and MVAE's now a days
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
01-11-2012, 06:04 AM
I would not have anything against getting new escort ship, made in simmilar style as Fleet Escort (best looking STO-designed ship). There are too many retrofits, not enough new classes. Mirandas and Tier-1 a'la Constituions are almost 150 and Excelsiors over 120 years old constructions. Akiras and Sabers are newer but also around 50 years. Feds were, at the end of Voyager, introducing new ship classes and doing reserach/testing of various others. For good resons - constructions designed during peace time were not good enough for the war and conflict times of post-2370.

Give us new starship classes, ones that will replace (yeah, you read it right) old ones. Let keep players what they got, but new ones should be able to choose only from the new starships.

And delete all this retrofitted old pieces of junk.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
01-11-2012, 06:32 AM
The Sabre and Akira were some of the first combat oriented ships so it would be nice to see them at higher tiers, particularly the Akira.
The new ships however are very nice (I still prefer the Maelstrom over any other escort) and the theme CapnLogan has going with the new line of Federation ships is a good one; elegant and taking hints from the previous canon ships but definitely it's own look. Give me an Akira with material 6 however and I won't be switching ships in a hurry.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
01-11-2012, 08:15 AM
I'd actually have to disagree with you. The Saber was not intended as a combat ship at all. It was intended as a fast response, fleet support, low-priority ship. Need a diplomat transported? Saber. Need to settle a trade dispute without causing a big scene? Saber. however, I have no problem with the saber being used as an escort, since it was small and fast, and could easily be retrofitted with more weapons.

Now, I will agree, the Akira was a combat ship, with at least 5 torpedo launchers (all of them used on screen). It was also a cruiser, and was at times used as the flagship of a task force (see Voy: "Message in a Bottle")

Another tactical ship was the Intrepid. Again, despite how Cryptic portrays it, the Intrepid was intended as a Fast-response tactical ship. With at least 11 phaser arrays, four torpedo launchers, and one of the fastest warp drives at launch.



As to the "too many retrofits, not enough new ships"... The reason you see more retrofits is because that's what most of us want. We watch Star Trek, then play STO, and we want to play with the ships we saw on-screen. It's disappointing when we see the Akira fire a volley of torpedos, and then play, and see that the Akira is useless after Captain.

Fly around in sector space, and pay attention to what ships you see. Compare the numbers of canon (Defiant, Prometheus, Sovereign, Intrepid, Excelsior, etc) designs to Cryptic designs (star cruiser, fleet escort, deep space science). There's a reason for that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
01-11-2012, 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerzyJablonski
I would not have anything against getting new escort ship, made in simmilar style as Fleet Escort (best looking STO-designed ship). There are too many retrofits, not enough new classes. Mirandas and Tier-1 a'la Constituions are almost 150 and Excelsiors over 120 years old constructions. Akiras and Sabers are newer but also around 50 years. Feds were, at the end of Voyager, introducing new ship classes and doing reserach/testing of various others. For good resons - constructions designed during peace time were not good enough for the war and conflict times of post-2370.

Give us new starship classes, ones that will replace (yeah, you read it right) old ones. Let keep players what they got, but new ones should be able to choose only from the new starships.

And delete all this retrofitted old pieces of junk.
The new +1 ships are listed as a new class of ship, based on previous designs. Look at the ambassador and Galaxy, there are a lot of similiarities. Look at the Defiant and Sao Paulo, there are a lot of similarities, and diffrences.

One thing we need is a Delta flyer based shuttle. (not the delta flyer that we have to buy)

In multipule future Voyagers we saw Delta class shuttle designes on the new shuttle class.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
01-11-2012, 08:33 AM
Quote:
As to the "too many retrofits, not enough new ships"... The reason you see more retrofits is because that's what most of us want. We watch Star Trek, then play STO, and we want to play with the ships we saw on-screen. It's disappointing when we see the Akira fire a volley of torpedos, and then play, and see that the Akira is useless after Captain.
Yes, I would love it. And it will be great if STO has been done this way from the beginning. With Mirandas, Centaurs, Excelsior and other ships from TOS era being low tier ships; Sabres, Norways, Ambassadors being mid-tier and TNG ships (Steamrunner, Galaxy, Akira) being RA level ships plus post-TNG (Defiant, Sovereign, Promeheus) as VA/endgame ships.

With the only retrofits that are viable for endgame being the RA ones and few rare ships we saw in the show (like Excelsior refit) but still limited in their possibilities. Ships for players that actually want to play even if they know that those ships wont be super-truper like the post-TNG ships.

New ships should be rare and made only when the game progress (so new ships for tier 6 if we ever get it and so on).

But STO was made, from begining as "new ships all around" type of show. And now it bites STO in the *** when refited old exploration ship that should be turned into razors is kicking *** of the top dog in the fleet combat cruiser (and class that was chosen for Starfleet Flagship).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
01-11-2012, 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuatela
I'd actually have to disagree with you. The Saber was not intended as a combat ship at all. It was intended as a fast response, fleet support, low-priority ship. Need a diplomat transported? Saber. Need to settle a trade dispute without causing a big scene? Saber. however, I have no problem with the saber being used as an escort, since it was small and fast, and could easily be retrofitted with more weapons.

Now, I will agree, the Akira was a combat ship, with at least 5 torpedo launchers (all of them used on screen). It was also a cruiser, and was at times used as the flagship of a task force (see Voy: "Message in a Bottle")

Another tactical ship was the Intrepid. Again, despite how Cryptic portrays it, the Intrepid was intended as a Fast-response tactical ship. With at least 11 phaser arrays, four torpedo launchers, and one of the fastest warp drives at launch.



As to the "too many retrofits, not enough new ships"... The reason you see more retrofits is because that's what most of us want. We watch Star Trek, then play STO, and we want to play with the ships we saw on-screen. It's disappointing when we see the Akira fire a volley of torpedos, and then play, and see that the Akira is useless after Captain.

Fly around in sector space, and pay attention to what ships you see. Compare the numbers of canon (Defiant, Prometheus, Sovereign, Intrepid, Excelsior, etc) designs to Cryptic designs (star cruiser, fleet escort, deep space science). There's a reason for that.
I know little of them and went by this which stated it was well armed for its size, something the older ships like the Miranda weren't. I'm happy to defer if that's incorrect though.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Saber_class

That reminds me though, I'd love a Norway too. I know there's a variant in game but I love the look of the triangular saucer on the First Contact version.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
01-11-2012, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuatela
I'd actually have to disagree with you. The Saber was not intended as a combat ship at all. It was intended as a fast response, fleet support, low-priority ship. Need a diplomat transported? Saber. Need to settle a trade dispute without causing a big scene? Saber.
True. 100% true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuatela
Now, I will agree, the Akira was a combat ship, with at least 5 torpedo launchers (all of them used on screen). It was also a cruiser, and was at times used as the flagship of a task force (see Voy: "Message in a Bottle")
Once again, 100% true. It was also heavily used in the Dominion War, both the televised version and the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuatela
Another tactical ship was the Intrepid. Again, despite how Cryptic portrays it, the Intrepid was intended as a Fast-response tactical ship. With at least 11 phaser arrays, four torpedo launchers, and one of the fastest warp drives at launch.
I agree here as well, the Intrepid held its own against most of what the Delta Quadrant threw at her.
Cryptic has a history of creating ships (on the Federation side) very short of what we saw on screen.
My god, if the Galaxy X isn't proof enough then just look at the Excelsior vs the Sovereign.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuatela
As to the "too many retrofits, not enough new ships"... The reason you see more retrofits is because that's what most of us want. We watch Star Trek, then play STO, and we want to play with the ships we saw on-screen. It's disappointing when we see the Akira fire a volley of torpedos, and then play, and see that the Akira is useless after Captain.
Exactly! I watched, now I want to play but these Federation ships are anticlimactic. As if someone with a disdain for Star Trek and/or the Federation (as represented in Star Trek) was designing the ships in this game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuatela
Fly around in sector space, and pay attention to what ships you see. Compare the numbers of canon (Defiant, Prometheus, Sovereign, Intrepid, Excelsior, etc) designs to Cryptic designs (star cruiser, fleet escort, deep space science). There's a reason for that.
Simple, Cryptic designed ships are hideous and fugly. Like cars designed in the 1960's of what they
anticipated we would be driving in the year 2000. Just plain fugly. Once again, this would be in line with a Star Trek game being developed by people that do not like or care for the very IP on which the game is based.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
01-12-2012, 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Canadian
I know this has been brought up before. But i'd like to see the Sabre Class Escort and the Akira Class Escort Get a retrofit. We're seeing to many Defiant's and MVAE's now a days
I don't know if I'd say that. I know plenty of people who favor the Fleet Escort.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
01-13-2012, 08:31 AM
The fleet escort has a certain ... rugged build about it. If I hadn't bought an MVAE, I would still be flying the escort, dervish nacelles but a more gryphon look overall.

Of course, the MVAE is a pretty piece of material ... in canon, it would have begun regular combat duty shortly after the end of DS9; indeed, one is flanking the USS Voyager when she returns to earth at the end of Endgame, and Admiral Ross selected one as his flagship in some non-canon novels. The MVAE continued to be in service until the 26th century in an alternate timeline when Archer visited the future. There's nothing wrong with seeing a lot of those.

There are problems with seeing a lot of Defiants - from what I can figure, that ship tears itself apart and requires the very best starship engineers in order to keep the ship from blowing itself up. Case in point - a bunch of cadets couldn't get it to go faster than warp 3. However, the knowledge of the class was well retained into the 31st century, so its plausible that the class be retained ... although I wouldn't have it be one of the top tiered ships in the quadrant - such distinction should remain with flagships, not tactical escorts.

The defiant also has tons of sizing problems, from terrible deck plans, not actually having enough space for all its weapons, impulse drives, and shuttlebay, airlocks (used with ds9), windows (which it shouldn't have any at all) .... and so on.
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