Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
01-11-2012, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
This, this, a thousand times this.

Everyone wants something different.
Actually, I think that what most people want (just a guess here) is for STO to actually be the game that Jack Emmert stood there and looked into our collective eyes and told us it would be.

What he described sounded really cool.

Tell your boss man to hit up YouTube for Jack's revelation of what STO was going to be. And then how bout suggesting to him that forward-going development actually be focused on making it a reality.

Really... how hard would it be?

We've been told that we'll have to make do with fewer featured Episodes than we were originally told we would be getting. I gues PWE isn't as loose on the old purse strings as you guys thought. Because the end of the content drought was supposed to come with the launch of F2P. And now it sounds like it's going to just be business as usual.

You people at Cryptic and PWE can keep talking about how what you have seen being worked on being so awesome all you want to. We've been hearing that crap since April of last year. the game will be 2 years old in a few weeks, and still the Klingon faction is as incomplete as ever, with no indication on the timeframe for it being brought on par with the Federation.

So I have just one question? Just what in the name of James Tiberius Kirk have you guys been doing?

I understand the corporate chaos you guys had to deal with last year. But PWE was supposed to be your saviors, and they were supposed to be funding the game and hiring people. And you guys were supposed to be holding back all this content for F2P which officially launches in six days.

And now we find out that Featured Episodes are going to be maybe two series this year.

So again... What have you guys been doing?

And as my sig says, I'm not jumping on the I hate Cryptic bandwagon. But we have been told one thing in the past only to discover it was not accurate, and it seems to be happening again. Just for once can't you do what you actually SAY you are going to do? Stop hyping people up by exaggerating how awesome something is going to be unless that something is going to be exactly how it is described.

THIS is why I am not a subscriber and why I am content to just play casually and get my CP from the dilithium exchange rather than buying it. Because in my opinion, your product is not worth paying real money for. And your decision-makers don't seem to care.

I want to be willing to spend money for things. But what is the point of fluff items if there is no meaningful content to really use them with?

If you guys are expecting F2P to be the success it has been for games like DDO, LotRO and your own CO, then because of the way you are doing it for STO, CONTENT is going to have to be KING.

I'm off my soapbox now... Have a pleasant day...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
01-11-2012, 11:11 AM
We definitely don't want to remove Trek from the equation. That was just an example of how all games have to operate. This is, and will always be a Trek game.

I fully agree that there are definitely ways that we could (and should) incorporate more Trekocity into the game. I'll be working on that, and try to bring it up as we move forward. But we cannot rewrite the entire game from scratch to fit the ideal. We can only make improvements on what we work on in the future, ant touch up what we find is the most broken/untrue to lore/canon that we can.

Mediocrity is never the goal. If we miss our mark and end up there, I apologize, but the intention is to stay true to the subject matter.

Oh, and there are some serious, hardcore Trek nerds on the team. Don't doubt that for a second.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
01-11-2012, 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
This, this, a thousand times this.

Everyone wants something different. A 'true' Trek game in your eyes, might be entirely boring to someone else. I mean, who wants to sit at the conn 8 hours a day, waiting for something to happen. And what those people find exciting, you might find don't match your ideals for Trek.

Remove the word Trek from the above, and you describe the dilemma of making any video game, let alone an MMO. Do you focus on one aspect that some people REALLY love? Or do you try to hit a few different aspects to draw in more players. The bottom line is that video games companies are businesses, and thus, have to try to appeal to the broadest customer base they can. We still really want this to be all about Trek, but we cannot build a game for 8 people, and as such, there are some points that have to be hit, in order to appeal to the masses.
While I agree that broadly speaking players prefer combat to other means of advancing their characters adding some more variety wouldn't hurt.

My suggestion is that where possible you give players a choice between using force and some other means of achieving their ingame mission goals.

For instance there is a daily mission where you stop a Breen ship and beam out Deferi prisoners. Now you could attack and destroy the Breen ships and still achieve the mission goal but as a Fed captain you are given the option to find a peaceful solution and leave the system without combat. Adding this kind of choice to more missions might be a good idea as it pleases both types of players...those that like battle and those who wish to avoid it as they feel it isn't "Trek".

Also it wouldn't hurt the game any if we see a few future episodes that focus on discovering new worlds and new species. Every episode doesn't have to be like that, but having a few that included puzzles or exploration instead of combat would be nice. At least try a few to see how they are received by the players. If they bomb you can at least say you tried.

Finally I think by improving and expanding the Foundry alot of the pressure on the devs to create this kind of content would diminish as players could produce the kind of content they want.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
01-11-2012, 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
We can only make improvements on what we work on in the future, ant touch up what we find is the most broken/untrue to lore/canon that we can.
Speaking of this,


Can we please have a proper LCARs display in game. Even though blue is my fav color (Sapphire to be specific), can we have some yellow orange and pink?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
01-11-2012, 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therunn
Your company chose to try and take on a universe that is held very dear to more people around the world than most religions.
Unfortunately true, though I would politely advise a lot of those people it's just a TV show... a TV show whhich can't manageto maintain a solid continuity from one show to the next.

Could Cryptic do a better job? Sure they can, every MMO company can do a better job. Constructive feedback helps them to deliver a better product. Unfortunately all I'm really seeing these days is a bunch of 'fans' who have taken the whole thing far too personally and just plain rude and insulting to the Devs... and then blame the devs for being rude and insulting. Here's me thinking Star Trek always tried to push peace, tolerance and understanding as a primary theme...

[quote]You can't hope to please people with the attitude of, Well...it is Star Trekish kind of sort of. Either make it Trek or call it a day in my opinion. [quote]

Except just what is Star Trek? A TV show... well cryptic aren;t in the business of making a TV show. Is is Bridge Commander? Frankly I'd find that impossibly boring. Is it diploamcy? Possibly. Is it big space ships duking it out in space? Possibly? Is it a lone captain struggling to find their way home? Possibly Is it the crew supporting said Captain? Possibly Is it the borg? Possibly? Point is, ask a 1000 ST fans what Star Trek is and you get at least 5,000 different answers... Try to tell Cryptic to 'make it Trek' is quite frankly impossible to achieve. However at the end of the day, what they are producing is a game a game which HAS to have a broad appeal in order to survive.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
01-11-2012, 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post

Oh, and there are some serious, hardcore Trek nerds on the team. Don't doubt that for a second.
Really? name a single instance where Romulans' on a Romulan held base/planet use, as a norm, Federation equipment.

I realize this is a small and seemingly minor issue but when you add all of them together, it has a diminishing effect on the feeling of immersion. I play this game exclusively for space missions...and the fact that a 120 year old ship out performs a newer ship is sad. The fact that my ships can't do so much of what I saw in the series is a big disappointment, ie: can't warp out of a battle and only Klingons have an accurate cloak. Plus
the silly things like 2/5th of my crew incapacitated/dead from a 3 minute battle only to be replenished in the blink of an eye and all without ever visiting a Starbase.

It's silly...which is how 99% of Cryptic designed ships look....

If you had anyone on the design team that watched, enjoyed and knew anything about Star Trek....these issues would not exist.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
01-11-2012, 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
We definitely don't want to remove Trek from the equation. That was just an example of how all games have to operate. This is, and will always be a Trek game.
If you don't want to remove TREK from the game, why do STF's feel like RedShirt Stormtroopers? How come ground combat basically boils down to fire-fights instead of offering true exploration and adventuring? How come the P'Jem mission with the Vulcan Ambassador who proves to be an Undine does not offer me the choice to first confront the Ambassador before opening fire on the Klingons?

There are a lot of these little questions regarding STO and the overall answer is that STO is what it is because its designs were not its own but rather an extension of an existing game engine with a Superhero-flavored combat and world experience. Because of this, STO is a TREK-like game that happens to feature STAR-TREK themed combat, but does not fully capture the spirit of STAR TREK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
I fully agree that there are definitely ways that we could (and should) incorporate more Trekocity into the game.
Here's a free tip when trying to improve STO's Trekocity, stop thinking about individual and segregated systems like Diplomacy missions, Aid the Planet missions and the DOff system, and start thinking how everything ties together into a seamless experience that brings player-immersion. Also, start asking questions like: "What would Kirk [or any other TREK Captain for that matter] do?" That's an approach that worked well for another developer who has managed to inject a lot of immersion into their first MMO ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
But we cannot rewrite the entire game from scratch to fit the ideal.
This goes both ways as you can't force fans of the ideal to accept your efforts as worthy of investing their time and money in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
We can only make improvements on what we work on in the future, ant touch up what we find is the most broken/untrue to lore/canon that we can.
And still, if your efforts do not improve the overall experience... expect nothing to change in the attitude of the Community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
Mediocrity is never the goal. If we miss our mark and end up there, I apologize, but the intention is to stay true to the subject matter.
Cryptic shoehorned a franchise that is based on exploring what it means to be a sentient being and how interstellar civilizations may treat one-another into a game that features endless battlefields in both space and ground and anything more is an afterthought. The result being mediocre shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who's watched the TV shows in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
Oh, and there are some serious, hardcore Trek nerds on the team. Don't doubt that for a second.
I wonder if they themselves would subscribe to STO... and for how long.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
01-11-2012, 11:54 AM
The featured episodes have proven that Cryptic is getting with the program and understanding the Trek formula - you can complain all you want about the lack of these missions but seeing as though they are the latest creations it is clear that it is fitting with Star Trek.

And to the complaints about the lack of exploration in environments. It is boring in any MMO even in most games, most people forget about it quite quickly and just want to get quests done and MMO's are absolutely the best example of this. Cryptic could make the environments look amazing with countless paths but it would serve no purpose and everything in an MMO boils down to shooting something and pressing the 'Use' key. The only way to make it more interesting is more puzzle gameplay and more interesting mini-games - actual exploration would serve no purpose and a complete waste of production time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
01-11-2012, 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
We definitely don't want to remove Trek from the equation. That was just an example of how all games have to operate. This is, and will always be a Trek game.

I fully agree that there are definitely ways that we could (and should) incorporate more Trekocity into the game. I'll be working on that, and try to bring it up as we move forward. But we cannot rewrite the entire game from scratch to fit the ideal. We can only make improvements on what we work on in the future, ant touch up what we find is the most broken/untrue to lore/canon that we can.

Mediocrity is never the goal. If we miss our mark and end up there, I apologize, but the intention is to stay true to the subject matter.

Oh, and there are some serious, hardcore Trek nerds on the team. Don't doubt that for a second.
heh...

I love that you seem to have the same passion for this game that folks around here have...
(and that you like to jump head-first into the frey)

Pleaasse... try to pass that up the line to the ones who make the decisions...,
and also, get them to be more expressive of that, when They post...

(Hell, have BranFlakes retype it if necessary....)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
01-11-2012, 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
This, this, a thousand times this.

Everyone wants something different. A 'true' Trek game in your eyes, might be entirely boring to someone else. I mean, who wants to sit at the conn 8 hours a day, waiting for something to happen. And what those people find exciting, you might find don't match your ideals for Trek.

Remove the word Trek from the above, and you describe the dilemma of making any video game, let alone an MMO. Do you focus on one aspect that some people REALLY love? Or do you try to hit a few different aspects to draw in more players. The bottom line is that video games companies are businesses, and thus, have to try to appeal to the broadest customer base they can. We still really want this to be all about Trek, but we cannot build a game for 8 people, and as such, there are some points that have to be hit, in order to appeal to the masses.
I'm no more interested in running the same 6 STF missions 8 hours a day than I am in sitting at the conn waiting for something to happen. Oh wait, those are essentially equivalent to me really. What you may choose to depict as exciting also becomes entirely boring when it's repeated too often.

Your perfunctory crafting system fails to provide alternative diversion. As does diplomacy, the duty officer system (which is really cool at first, but then you realize you're just waiting up to 3 days for a die roll), dabo, and so on. To quote Stewie Griffin "How about you finish one candy bar before you open another?". All of those systems have potential but will likely be left in their half-conceived states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumerboy View Post
We definitely don't want to remove Trek from the equation. That was just an example of how all games have to operate. This is, and will always be a Trek game.

I fully agree that there are definitely ways that we could (and should) incorporate more Trekocity into the game. I'll be working on that, and try to bring it up as we move forward. But we cannot rewrite the entire game from scratch to fit the ideal. We can only make improvements on what we work on in the future, ant touch up what we find is the most broken/untrue to lore/canon that we can.

Mediocrity is never the goal. If we miss our mark and end up there, I apologize, but the intention is to stay true to the subject matter.

Oh, and there are some serious, hardcore Trek nerds on the team. Don't doubt that for a second.
I wouldn't think changing the word dilithium to something that isn't totally ludicrous would be such a chore. Can you imagine Scotty screaming "Captain, the dilithium crystals in the reaction chamber are totally depleted, do we have any in the shipboard refinery?"? Things like that make it seem like you're mocking the fan base a little.


Addendum: Don't shoot! i have a pocket full of starship fuel!
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