Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 101
01-26-2012, 05:30 PM
Keep in mind the rates have been bumped serveral times already.

Technicaly speaking a 0.00000000001% raise, is still a boost to the drop rates.

What I really want to know for us poor suckers with horrible luck (~200ish elite stfs, no tech) is what if any alternatives are being considered.

Secondly what the drop rate math is and what the increase is in comparison so we can actually quanitfy it past "It's gone up."

Thirdly i suppose: Why are the mark 11 tech drops even in elite mode? That just makes people who want the 12, and have EDC's coming out of their ears and have the 11 set rage like no other. As someone who has crap luck.. I'd rather keep my crap luck than to be teased like that and denied. Those people get my pitty.

The cynic in me says "We're not saying anything because we'll get pitch forks and torches after us due to how abysmaly low it is. We like our lives and our houses not turned to ash."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 102
01-26-2012, 07:03 PM
Well, I hope Armek gets special attention in the difficulty reduction, since it's ridiculously hard even on normal. That and the Infected and Cure optionals on normal need a balance pass to be in line with the other STFs.

I am also so over this whole lottery business when it comes to STO with the bug ship and the Mark XII gear. Getting the other gear is a huge grind but at least it's inevitable that you'll get it someday. This whole random change thing is just ridiculous. The Mark XII gear should be given out for somewhere in between 60-100 EDCs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 103
01-27-2012, 05:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanshi View Post
Gozer wants to keep the lottery system for tech drops, and you're *happy*?! You have got to be kidding!
Depends on the drop rate. If it is high enough for us to get tech in an acceptable amount of runs, then I'm fine with it.

That being said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Gozer
I have been monitoring the data relating to the STF's since they went to holodeck. I know how many people are actually completing the missions, what loot they are getting, what loot they are not getting, and how many people actually have complete Mark XII sets
Is it true that you can count them with the fingers on one hand?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 104
01-27-2012, 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaseCloaker
A few people here are familiar with probability and statistics.

Upping the rate ever so slightly is not going to help with the inevitable fact of being "unlucky", even less so the grievances.

Lottery is an incomplete solution, it will not help those who's already grind hundreds of STFs and got nothing. What? Are you asking those who has grind 300 stfs, to grind 100 more by increasing the drop rate three folds? If the drop rate is 1%, then even after 10000 missions without a drop, the chance of next drop is still 1%, no more no less. Lottery is an incorrect application to this reward system. The right people are still not getting what they deserve.

Here's some math for ya:
Let's say proto drop rate is 1% (to be generous). Then, over 100 STF successes, the chance of getting zero proto tech is:
p = (1-r)^100 = 36.6%
That is, on average, 366/1000 players gets NOTHING after 100 successes, regardless of how hard or how well they play, just get nothing. Mind that there are 12 mk12 pieces, and most people have multiple toons. Increasing the rate is not going to solve the fundamental problem... There will still be a large number of people who will continue to get nothing after hundreds of success, that's the inconvenient truth about probability.

The least that should be done, on the reward system, is to put a cap for the unlucky few (<- unlucky few is an inevitable product of lottery system, as explained above). To be fair and just, give the character the proto tech after a said number of successes for that given mission. If you want it to be 1000 games, so be it, cap it at 1000. This can easily be tied in with the accolade system. Without a cap, there is no upper limit for trials without drop/ with incomplete set. By the law of nature, a finite number of players will NEVER get the set no matter how many STFs they play. That means there would be no cap on how much players hate the dev.

So, please understand how numbers work, before using numbers as a tool. Please read this and consider the content. It's not a blind bash, look at the science.


BTW, I've finished 200+ elites across 4 toons, got ZERO proto drop. I got like 3-4 mk11 drops, but that's just insult to injury. Of course, that's just me, there are few in the world with my luck, literally.
don't forget that some people get multiple tech drops whereas others have never received the first one.. this would reduce to total number of _distinct_ people/toons receiving proto tech drops.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 105
01-27-2012, 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superherofan1701 View Post

I am also so over this whole lottery business when it comes to STO with the bug ship and the Mark XII gear. Getting the other gear is a huge grind but at least it's inevitable that you'll get it someday. This whole random change thing is just ridiculous. The Mark XII gear should be given out for somewhere in between 60-100 EDCs.

I couldn't agree more. The crapshoot thing sucks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 106
01-27-2012, 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakarak
...You would not even have to make new currency. Just make it an accolade. If you do a mission on elite X times, you get earn the tech drop as a reward. You can reduce the random drop rate to compensate. This way, I would know if I completed The Cure Ground x times I would get the accolade and the Elite Armor requisition. It would also be something to shoot for rather than just hoping that maybe something will drop and we will get it.
I LOVE this idea. This could be tied into the UFP Medal of Honor Accolade. Complete an elite STF x amount of times, receive the accolade and a prototype tech reward.

Its still very challenging, but adds the guarantee of eventually completing the set. And that will keep the players coming.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 107
01-30-2012, 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Gozer
1. I'm still around, just very busy...

2. Even when I'm not posting, I'm still generally reading the forums at least once a day.

I have been monitoring the data relating to the STF's since they went to holodeck. I know how many people are actually completing the missions, what loot they are getting, what loot they are not getting, and how many people actually have complete Mark XII sets, and the list goes on from there.

This data takes time to get any kind of useful information from it, and it's the only real way to find out if the loot is getting out to players the way I want it to.

I'll continue to watch this data (just like I have been over they last few weeks) and make future adjustments if needed after this set of updates go out.

That said.. here are the updates...

These should be out to you on Holodeck in the next couple of weeks, so keep an eye on the patch notes.

Elite STF difficulty has been slightly decreased.

Borg Tech drop rates have been increased for both Normal and Elite Versions of the STF's.


Goz
What percentage then? Because I do not believe you until I see concrete proof of this. Show us the data. People are hardly going to run STF's until there is proof. Cause I'm not doing over 900 runs of wasting my time because you say that your going to increase the drop rate and don't tell the percentage and still NEVER get a mark 12 piece.

This will be second time you have increase the drop rate. How many times will the drop rate increase until it's at acceptable percentage? 5 times? 10 times? People have lives you know.

I certainly will not be doing runs until then.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 108
01-30-2012, 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Gozer
1. I'm still around, just very busy...

2. Even when I'm not posting, I'm still generally reading the forums at least once a day.

I have been monitoring the data relating to the STF's since they went to holodeck. I know how many people are actually completing the missions, what loot they are getting, what loot they are not getting, and how many people actually have complete Mark XII sets, and the list goes on from there.

This data takes time to get any kind of useful information from it, and it's the only real way to find out if the loot is getting out to players the way I want it to.

I'll continue to watch this data (just like I have been over they last few weeks) and make future adjustments if needed after this set of updates go out.

That said.. here are the updates...

These should be out to you on Holodeck in the next couple of weeks, so keep an eye on the patch notes.

Elite STF difficulty has been slightly decreased.

Borg Tech drop rates have been increased for both Normal and Elite Versions of the STF's.


Goz
Wow. Gozer listening to the community?
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