Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
01-12-2012, 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
The Entertainment Software Association is the principle lobbyist for game developers like Perfect world. At present, the ESA supports the Stop Online Piracy Act, and unless it's members explicity say otherwise, they are tacitly supporting the bill. After all, don't you think the ESA would be consulting with it's members on this before giving the go ahead to support it? The only reason why some companies are beginning to oppose is because it has begun to receive a lot of bad publicity in the last 4-5 months.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...RuP_story.html

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/01/06/sopa-list-esa/ -list of companies against and for it
You cannot tell me that because one company says something, another company automatically agrees with it. It's like, if I went to Jiffy Lube and put a Jiffy Lube sticker on my windshield, but then they come out and said they hate gay people. Just because I have a Jiffy Lube sticker on my windshield and they hate gays doesn't mean I do too.

That list says they haven't responded. They put FOR because the ESA supports it and someone generalized. You can't believe everything you see on the internet. For all you know, the founder and CEO of PWE avidly opposes SOPA and is simply unaware of the statements made by the ESA.

Plus, for someone attempting to argue a point as intellectual as this, it seems like you would at least attempt to use proper grammar.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
01-12-2012, 03:22 PM
The moderators have moved it to ten forward like ninjas. Sneaky, sneaky!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
01-12-2012, 03:27 PM
If SOPA did pass, the "nefarious" hackers of the world would attack every site that supported it relentlessly to show them what having a site shut down feels like. Every politician would get his own smear campaign against him.

It would be repealed after a week. Then everyone who voted for it would be kicked out of office the next election.

... why is a political thread being pushed here in front of me? I'm a sucker for these things, I *have* to post in them! If I get in trouble, it's not my fault!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
01-12-2012, 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by leptoon View Post
You cannot tell me that because one company says something, another company automatically agrees with it. It's like, if I went to Jiffy Lube and put a Jiffy Lube sticker on my windshield, but then they come out and said they hate gay people. Just because I have a Jiffy Lube sticker on my windshield and they hate gays doesn't mean I do too.
Right from ESA's website http://www.theesa.com/about/index.asp:


Shape Our Industry’s Future

"ESA members are connected within a strong network of industry leaders. The ESA has more than 35 member companies including Microsoft Corporation, Nintendo of America, Sony Computer Entertainment of America, Ubisoft and Electronic Arts. Members set the priorities for the association’s legislative, anti-piracy and intellectual property initiatives, providing an opportunity to influence issues that affect the entertainment software industry overall, as well as their individual bottom lines."

Read that closely

Don't think of ESA as an association. Think of them as a lawyer/lobbying firm that gets paid on retainer. Meaning, they have set payment agreements with their members based on how much lobbying/litigation they do per month/per year. This can be adjusted as per the amount of lobbying, research, and litigation.

Don't be fooled. The members are setting the priorties. I'm sure they have a meeting every month to collectively set the priorities the ESA will work on for the remainer of the month and year. The CEO of Perfect world and his lawyers, who work alongside the ESA's lawyers to set the legislative priorities of the lobbying firm, are fully aware of ESA's stance on SOFA.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
01-12-2012, 03:36 PM
How about not supporting PW, but Cryptic?
They made the game after all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
01-12-2012, 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
Right from ESA's website http://www.theesa.com/about/index.asp:


Shape Our Industry’s Future

"ESA members are connected within a strong network of industry leaders. The ESA has more than 35 member companies including Microsoft Corporation, Nintendo of America, Sony Computer Entertainment of America, Ubisoft and Electronic Arts. Members set the priorities for the association’s legislative, anti-piracy and intellectual property initiatives, providing an opportunity to influence issues that affect the entertainment software industry overall, as well as their individual bottom lines."

Read that closely

Don't think of ESA as an association. Think of them as a lawyer/lobbying firm that gets paid on retainer. Meaning, they have set payment agreements with their members based on how much lobbying/litigation they do per month/per year. This can be adjusted as per the amount of lobbying, research, and litigation.

Don't be fooled. The members are setting the priorties. I'm sure they have a meeting every month to collectively set the priorities the ESA will work on for the remainer of the month and year. The CEO of Perfect world and his lawyers, who work alongside the ESA's lawyers to set the legislative priorities of the lobbying firm, are fully aware of ESA's stance on SOFA.
That's all well and good, but what about the multiple members of the ESA that have actively opposed the current version of SOPA? You say all of the members have a say in the direction that the ESA takes, what about those members who disagree with the act? What say do they have?

The simple fact is this; PWE has not expressed an opinion in this matter. We cannot infer from one organizations actions that another organization wholeheartedly agrees with it. You won't convince me otherwise until the day PWE makes a formal announcement on the subject.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
01-12-2012, 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hort_wort View Post
If SOPA did pass, the "nefarious" hackers of the world would attack every site that supported it relentlessly to show them what having a site shut down feels like. Every politician would get his own smear campaign against him.

It would be repealed after a week. Then everyone who voted for it would be kicked out of office the next election.
Keep dreaming. If it gets passed it'll be as quiet as possible until people forget about it. They're not going to let a weapon of corporate terrorism slip through their chubby fingers without an extended and devious fight.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
01-12-2012, 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by leptoon View Post
That's all well and good, but what about the multiple members of the ESA that have actively opposed the current version of SOPA? You say all of the members have a say in the direction that the ESA takes, what about those members who disagree with the act? What say do they have?

The simple fact is this; PWE has not expressed an opinion in this matter. We cannot infer from one organizations actions that another organization wholeheartedly agrees with it. You won't convince me otherwise until the day PWE makes a formal announcement on the subject.
They are the lobbying firm for Perfect World and many other developers. That means PW and other members are setting the legislative agenda for the lobbying firm. Do i need to say anymore? If PW continues to pay them and PW fails to take a public stance on SOFA, that means PW tacitly agrees with it. If PW didn't agree with it, they would have already gone public on it. In other words, by virtue of being a member of the ESA, setting it's agenda with other members, and paying it to represent that agenda, PW is supporting/agreeing with ESA's stance.



Also, you have incorrectly characterized the ESA. They are not simply an organization. They are a lobbying firm that is payed by it's members to litigate and to lobby an agenda that it's members have collectively agreed upon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
01-12-2012, 03:47 PM
I agree with SOPA because I can personally profit from it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
01-12-2012, 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
They are the lobbying firm for Perfect World and many other developers. That means PW and other members are setting the legislative agenda for the lobbying firm. Do i need to say anymore? If PW continues to pay them and PW fails to take a public stance on SOFA, that means PW tacitly agrees with it. If PW didn't agree with it, they would have already gone public on it. In other words, by virtue of being a member of the ESA, setting it's agenda with other members, and paying it to represent that agenda, PW is supporting/agreeing with ESA's stance.

Also, you have incorrectly characterized the ESA. They are not simply an organization. They are a lobbying firm that is payed by it's members to litigate and to lobby an agenda that it's members have collectively agreed upon.
What does it mean to tactically agree with someone?

You didn't answer my question. What about the multiple members of the ESA that do not support SOPA?

I mischaracterized no one. The ESA is as much an organization as any other group of people. One could classify the mexican mafia as an organization, as well as every religious and political group on the planet. The fact that you don't know the definition of a simple word makes me doubt your credibility to even begin to argue this subject.

Quote:
or·gan·i·za·tion/ˌôrgəniˈzāSHən/
Noun:

The action of organizing something.
The structure or arrangement of related or connected items.
You're making all these assumptions and accusations, yet all you back your words up with is more of your own words. As I've said already, the day PWE makes a formal statement on the subject is the day I'll consider your argument. Until then, you're just wrong. Simply, plainly, almost painfully wrong. I'm done with this thread.
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