Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-03-2012, 02:30 AM
Sensors skill also buff drain amount. Maybe they forgot to add to mk2-3
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-03-2012, 06:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrSkyfaller
One thing I would want to know is if the subsystem target ability works like beam overload or does it work like fire at will? Aka , only the next beam weapon in the firing cycle 'fires' the attack or do all beams fire the attack (1 chance to proc vs. as many chances to proc as you have beam weapons).

anyone know?
Only the next shot gets the buff, like Beam Overload.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-03-2012, 01:03 PM
I've spent the morning looking into the Subsystem Target powers, and have tracked down the issue that ya'll are seeing. It actually is happening on all Subsystem Target powers, but is most obvious for Shields.

The power drain amounts are too high. That's the simplest way to put it. When we allowed them to be modified under the new skill system, the modifiers were set to values that reliably allow players to reach levels we hadn't intended (>50 power drain with a single shot).

This has been exacerbated by the number of Power Drain abilities players currently have access to, and the fact that they are all capable of stacking with one another.

We haven't finalized a solution to address this just yet, but it's now on my list of abilities to be rebalanced.

Some of the options being considered right now would be:

* Remove skill mods from the power drain magnitude, and put them instead on the duration of the drain (which lasts for 15 seconds now, but would be made to be a scale... probably 10-20 based on Flow Cap skill). If we took this route, we'd also slightly increase the drain (~25% most likely).

* Reduce the drain, but increase the % chance of knocking the Subsystem offline.

We're open to hearing other suggestions. This isn't a change that will be going live (or even to Tribble) in the immediate future, so there's some time to entertain options.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-03-2012, 01:05 PM
Thanks Jeremy,

I'd like to think this is why I was getting rocked so hard in 2v2 PvP with my friends. It was even teams of 1 Science and 1 Escort. My opposing Science friend was disabling my poor escort left and right. With no Engines or Shields at any given time, it was difficult to lay down the DPS.

Maybe I'll dip my does back in for some friendly PvP again after the fix.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-03-2012, 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorticusCryptic
I've spent the morning looking into the Subsystem Target powers, and have tracked down the issue that ya'll are seeing. It actually is happening on all Subsystem Target powers, but is most obvious for Shields.

The power drain amounts are too high. That's the simplest way to put it. When we allowed them to be modified under the new skill system, the modifiers were set to values that reliably allow players to reach levels we hadn't intended (>50 power drain with a single shot).

This has been exacerbated by the number of Power Drain abilities players currently have access to, and the fact that they are all capable of stacking with one another.

We haven't finalized a solution to address this just yet, but it's now on my list of abilities to be rebalanced.

Some of the options being considered right now would be:

* Remove skill mods from the power drain magnitude, and put them instead on the duration of the drain (which lasts for 15 seconds now, but would be made to be a scale... probably 10-20 based on Flow Cap skill). If we took this route, we'd also slightly increase the drain (~25% most likely).

* Reduce the drain, but increase the % chance of knocking the Subsystem offline.

We're open to hearing other suggestions. This isn't a change that will be going live (or even to Tribble) in the immediate future, so there's some time to entertain options.
Hmm.

Remove skill mods, flow capacitors mess with duration, and have either flow capacitors or one of the more targeting focused abilities increase crit chance to knock offline. These things are a sci's bread and butter, I think having more options to buff them up is a good thing.

(Console explodes: "Captain, weapons aren't responding!"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-03-2012, 01:14 PM
Any chance you can mix up the two?

It would be nice to think that it had a greater effect if you build it up.

If I had to choose though, I would go for longer duration.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-03-2012, 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorticusCryptic
I've spent the morning looking into the Subsystem Target powers, and have tracked down the issue that ya'll are seeing. It actually is happening on all Subsystem Target powers, but is most obvious for Shields.
I get where you're coming from, but as an avid sci ship captain, I feel like we're already at a severe disadvantage. I've been trying to maximize damage while still trying to get a reasonable utility for my sci powers with more power diverted to aux; simply put, I can't do the damage that escorts or even cruisers can because that's how it's designed. I have therefore come to see my role as mostly about buffs/debuffs , and particularly on teams, allowing my non-sci companions to hit harder.

In PvP, this works pretty well, and I just barely feel like I can compete with a well-armed escort spec'd to devastate me with pure cannon damage.

In most PvE, I'm pretty good.

In STFs, though, sci ships aren't very competent. With so many stationary targets that don't have shields (gates, probes in Cure, transformers, generators), I don't even get to use some of my best subsystem debuffs & sub-nuc, whereas tacs & engs can find uses for almost all of their special skills. If you want to address a balance issue, make a sci ship as desirable for STFs as an escort - start there please, before nerfing one of the few selling points of a sci ship. I find we're most useful once a boss fight happens in STFs, though - we can debuff that thing with subsystem targeting, Tyken's, etc., and thereby help our team advance quicker.

In summary - let tac ships do massive damage, let cruisers be able to survive massive damage, and let sci ships be able to undermine all other ships' abilities. I regard target subsystem as currently doing precisely what it's meant to. Other ship types already have a number of advantages. If you do change from a power level effect to a probability of just plain knocking out the system, that chance to knock out the system had better be pretty damn substantial.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-03-2012, 02:14 PM
I don't necessarily think removing the magnitude of the drain is a good thing. For example, a single shot from my TSS 1 right now says it will drain 84 or so points of shield. Firing at someone with 6 levels of power insulators however reduces it to 24 or so. I would assume we want the ability to up the magnitude of a drain to coincide with one's passive defense.

We already see this proposal of increasing the length of time of the drain in the case with Energy Siphon; the flow increases the duration but the target's insulator can reduce the magnitude of the drain. So instead of a ES II draining 12, its only draining 6, maybe 4 at best with somewhat moderately speced into, despite how much you spec into flow capacitors yourself. This honestly seems a bit silly to me that my ability to pull energy cannot be improved to negate or overpower by opponents ability to reduce the drain. It's like having no abilities to up the damage of a weapon while the target can continue to grant resistance to that weapon.

Ultimately, it is based on how we want power drains to work. If we want it insulator vs flow, then we should keep the increase in magnitude of the drain, just re-tweak it to not be so great.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-03-2012, 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursix
Ultimately, it is based on how we want power drains to work. If we want it insulator vs flow, then we should keep the increase in magnitude of the drain, just re-tweak it to not be so great.
All Control-based abilities should work like this: Resists and Boosts are meant to alter the same attribute. If this is not the case with a power, tell us about the discrepancy and it will be addressed accordingly.

In other words, if your skill improves the duration, but the target's resists reduce the magnitude, that is a bug that needs to be corrected.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-03-2012, 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursix
I don't necessarily think removing the magnitude of the drain is a good thing. For example, a single shot from my TSS 1 right now says it will drain 84 or so points of shield. Firing at someone with 6 levels of power insulators however reduces it to 24 or so. I would assume we want the ability to up the magnitude of a drain to coincide with one's passive defense.

We already see this proposal of increasing the length of time of the drain in the case with Energy Siphon; the flow increases the duration but the target's insulator can reduce the magnitude of the drain. So instead of a ES II draining 12, its only draining 6, maybe 4 at best with somewhat moderately speced into, despite how much you spec into flow capacitors yourself. This honestly seems a bit silly to me that my ability to pull energy cannot be improved to negate or overpower by opponents ability to reduce the drain. It's like having no abilities to up the damage of a weapon while the target can continue to grant resistance to that weapon.

Ultimately, it is based on how we want power drains to work. If we want it insulator vs flow, then we should keep the increase in magnitude of the drain, just re-tweak it to not be so great.

Hmm. Really good point.
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