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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
01-15-2012, 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Songbird-
APB's customization blows all of this out of the water.
Yeah it does. I play APB reloaded sometimes. its sweet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
01-15-2012, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
Can you post a video of it for us please? Also, tell us why it is so much better than STO. What features does it have that STO does not? What could STO learn from it?
Lots more face sliders. Over a dozen styles of human ear.

Hair length slider from bald to long hair.

Decals that can be placed all over the body on skin or costume.

Now,I think Champions' system is more diverse than APB's and you can't do weird body types there...

But in terms of basic humans, yeah...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfgYaUY-mM0
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
01-15-2012, 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Lots more face sliders. Over a dozen styles of human ear.

Hair length slider from bald to long hair.

Decals that can be placed all over the body on skin or costume.

Now,I think Champions' system is more diverse than APB's and you can't do weird body types there...

But in terms of basic humans, yeah...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfgYaUY-mM0
Dang, we could definitely use a hair length slider! I think I would spend 1-2 hours a day just playing around with my Kling Boff hair. I wanted to make a B'Elanna Torres look with my female boff's yesterday, but STo wouldn't let me Q_Q.

Regarding the ear slider, if it were included, you totally know that players who love to make the goofy characters would make toons with massive ears and small heads and vice versa. Just yesterday I saw a gorn velociraptor near the fountains on Qnos that gave me quite a startle. Could you Imagine what they might have looked like with access to a better ear slider? That gorn velociraptor might now look like a Kangaroo. Freaking Q'nos would have kangaroo gorns running around everywhere and pretty soon Q'nos would start to look like the Australian outback. The possibilities would be endless, so I definitely support APB style facial feature presets and sliders.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
01-15-2012, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
Dang, we could definitely use a hair length slider! I think I would spend 1-2 hours a day just playing around with my Kling Boff hair. I wanted to make a B'Elanna Torres look with my female boff's yesterday, but STo wouldn't let me Q_Q.

Regarding the ear slider, if it were included, you totally know that players who love to make the goofy characters would make toons with massive ears and small heads and vice versa. Just yesterday I saw a gorn velociraptor near the fountains on Qnos that gave me quite a startle. Could you Imagine what they might have looked like with access to a better ear slider? That gorn velociraptor might now look like a Kangaroo. Freaking Q'nos would have kangaroo gorns running around everywhere and pretty soon Q'nos would start to look like the Australian outback. The possibilities would be endless, so I definitely support APB style facial feature presets and sliders.
It's possible to make bobblehead Klingons, Homer Simpson, and all kinds of creepy aliens now.

I have a couple of fairly subdued aliens, one that's just a more extreme take on a human and another that's basically a ******** human with ******** human body proportions.

But giving people choice means weird stuff will be there.

I don't think big ears would be worse than what we've got.

Also... Gorn have no ears. :-)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
01-15-2012, 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
Can you post a video of it for us please? Also, tell us why it is so much better than STO. What features does it have that STO does not? What could STO learn from it?

I know there was already a response to this, but.. the video linked, was short, and not very clear..

Try these:

I was so impressed with APB I bought a copy when I was still in Beta with the game... before it died, and was resurrected as a F2P game.

To be honest, the character creator in Eve Online is amazing too:


I guess then the obvious issue is... there seem to be a portion of the community that is dissatisfied with the character creator we have in our game.

It's also obvious that other games, even MMOs, have the ability to have amazing character creators.

The questions then become... WHY don't we have a better creator? CAN WE get a creator similar to the ones people have been pointing to in this thread? If so, WHEN can we see some improvement?

It was stated before that we were going to get better hair-tech. It was a good while back, so it's probably one of those issues that went the way of the dinosaur, but.. with all the CYA things surrounding F2P issues... is there any hope of the devs commenting on these issues?

Jolan'Tru
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
01-15-2012, 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
Lol, everyone on here is pretty hardcore Star-trek in some way. I wouldn't say I'm hardcore, but I do love star-trek. Don't think of it as something bad that should make us feel inferior. Think of it as something good because people like him are always providing great feedback that will go towards improving the game for you, I, and everyone else.
I was mostly just playfully paying him a compliment. My self-esteem is very much intact.

And I agree, Leviathan does provide a lot of excellent feedback and ideas.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
01-16-2012, 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galan_Vaurek

I know there was already a response to this, but.. the video linked, was short, and not very clear..

Try these:

I was so impressed with APB I bought a copy when I was still in Beta with the game... before it died, and was resurrected as a F2P game.

To be honest, the character creator in Eve Online is amazing too:


I guess then the obvious issue is... there seem to be a portion of the community that is dissatisfied with the character creator we have in our game.

It's also obvious that other games, even MMOs, have the ability to have amazing character creators.

The questions then become... WHY don't we have a better creator? CAN WE get a creator similar to the ones people have been pointing to in this thread? If so, WHEN can we see some improvement?

It was stated before that we were going to get better hair-tech. It was a good while back, so it's probably one of those issues that went the way of the dinosaur, but.. with all the CYA things surrounding F2P issues... is there any hope of the devs commenting on these issues?

Jolan'Tru
Ok, i have to that that Eve: Incursion's character creation mode is freaking awesome. The sculpting option that lets you make any small section of the body leaner or fatter is quite cool. To be honest, Galan, I think it would be too much programming for Cryptic to handle. However, the APB and EVE muscularity option for upper and lower body could certainly be included. This is how Cryptic could do it:

1. Lets use STO Torso scaling options as an example. Within the torso scaling, there is torso bulk and shoulder bulk. If muscularity was included, it would make both of these proportionately more muscular at the same time. At the same time, you would have the option to click on the custom button that would let you adjust each of these individually. The same would apply to hand and arm bulk. Muscularity would effect both.

Should width and leg length would turn into a tall or short bar that allows one to create a more proportionate tall or short person. If you wanted to to, you could hit the custom button and adjust each individually.

Cryptic could also include a large to small person bar that lumped leg length, torso width, and shoulder width all together. Again, you could tweak these indvidually but this bar would let you adjust all three in a more proportionate manner.

2. The costume page needs to be changed, too. Instead of having one long column of options, divide the upper body custome options into 2 or three separate menus that would fit into 2x2 or 3x3 mini windows in the top-left and top-right corners while your character stays in the middle of the screen.

3. The head, eyes, and nose options on the first page also need a retooling. Have a small main menu window in the top-left portion of the screen with the following options 1. head, 2. eyes, and 3 nose. When I go to click on the head option, another sub menu pops up right beside that menu or below that reads nose, mouth, lips, brow, jaw, chin, cheeks, nostrils, eyes. When I click on any of these options, another sub menu will show up in the top-right corner that lets me adjust the nose options, for example.

4. Hair would follow the same kind of menu interface that the head options do but could be included in it's own section once the new hair tech is introduced.

In other words, STO's character creation would stil involve 4 different sections you have to go through, but maneuvering through them would be much easier and the interface would be much more cleaned up. I don't see how this could take Cryptic more than a month to include. Cryptic, could we please get a response on this?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
01-17-2012, 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
Ok, i have to that that Eve: Incursion's character creation mode is freaking awesome. The sculpting option that lets you make any small section of the body leaner or fatter is quite cool. To be honest, Galan, I think it would be too much programming for Cryptic to handle. However, the APB and EVE muscularity option for upper and lower body could certainly be included. This is how Cryptic could do it:

~snip~
No, I understand that to take our Character Creator to the "Eve" level wouldn't be prudent. But my point in including it, is I've heard in the past that single player games could have in-depth character creation far superior to those on MMOs because of the amount of data that is transferred and having potentially thousands of players in the same 'area.' But, Eve and APB are both MMOs, so that sort of nix's that. Heck, even the **** character creator is 'better' in that the characters look drastically different.

As I've said numerous times on these boards.. the biggest issue in having the characters look so similar is the facial textures. I know you can change the shapes of the faces somewhat.. but with only 2 textures, with the added, what, five aged textures.. human characters look like brothers at least, if not clones.

We need more variety of facial textures at the very least... and that seems like a 'fix' that should be relatively easy, and quick to implement instead of a huge overhaul of the creation system... lol

I am hoping that with the money increase that's bound to go with the F2P changes.. Hopefully we'll get some much needed character creator love.

Jolan'tru
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
01-17-2012, 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galan_Vaurek
No, I understand that to take our Character Creator to the "Eve" level wouldn't be prudent. But my point in including it, is I've heard in the past that single player games could have in-depth character creation far superior to those on MMOs because of the amount of data that is transferred and having potentially thousands of players in the same 'area.' But, Eve and APB are both MMOs, so that sort of nix's that. Heck, even the **** character creator is 'better' in that the characters look drastically different.

As I've said numerous times on these boards.. the biggest issue in having the characters look so similar is the facial textures. I know you can change the shapes of the faces somewhat.. but with only 2 textures, with the added, what, five aged textures.. human characters look like brothers at least, if not clones.

We need more variety of facial textures at the very least... and that seems like a 'fix' that should be relatively easy, and quick to implement instead of a huge overhaul of the creation system... lol

I am hoping that with the money increase that's bound to go with the F2P changes.. Hopefully we'll get some much needed character creator love.

Jolan'tru
Yeah, I hear you on the the significant lack of age presets. More than brothers and sisters, it makes us all just look like younger or older versions of ourselves. My question to you is, other than more facial textures, what sorts of facial features would you want? For example, would you want a freckles bar? Maybe a droopiness bar ( face lift or lack of)? I certainly think we should have more customization options for the ears and the eyes. Ears, for example, could be stretched out or enlarged. Plus, like Leviathan says, we should have way more ear presets.

Another thing you should be able to do is create hybrids. Andorian/human or Klingon/human hybrids would allow us to put human hair on Klingon presets or vice versa.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
01-17-2012, 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Knuhteb
Yeah, I hear you on the the significant lack of age presets. More than brothers and sisters, it makes us all just look like younger or older versions of ourselves. My question to you is, other than more facial textures, what sorts of facial features would you want? For example, would you want a freckles bar? Maybe a droopiness bar ( face lift or lack of)? I certainly think we should have more customization options for the ears and the eyes. Ears, for example, could be stretched out or enlarged. Plus, like Leviathan says, we should have way more ear presets.

Another thing you should be able to do is create hybrids. Andorian/human or Klingon/human hybrids would allow us to put human hair on Klingon presets or vice versa.
I'll try to take your points separately here...

In my very limited experience with 3D graphics, they can use textures, specular and diffusion maps to accomplish a lot of the 'aging' that I think you're wanting, for age spots and wrinkling.

As far as a 'freckle bar' I think freckles can be accommodated with texturing rather than a bar.. to me, that'd be unnecessary coding for a simple solution of just adding the face/body textures with freckles.

I definitely agree on eye options! There's a huge palette of colors that can be applied to the eyes in-game, but the coloring doesn't seem to work very well. They come thru very muted, like the color itself is competing with the actual texture.

Ears being stretched is a difficult proposition, because from what I can tell everything is meshed and then textured which for static models is fine. When stretching a mesh/model the texture applied also stretches, and trust me, that can be absolutely horrid.

As an aside.. there's a free 3D program called DazStudio. They have a pretty cool program and some free meshes and textures.. give a go, and you'll see what I mean with texture stretching.

I don't know the program that Cryptic uses ... but the guys at Eve had e really cool (to me) presentation last year at one of the fan fests...

The video is long, almost an hour.. but they discuss some of their processes on how they do their character creation program.. I just kind of wish the devs here had similar abilities.

I really like the game play here. For the most part I like the story lines as well.. to me the character just look.. well, not as good as they could I suppose.

ETA:
The hybrid hair thing..

Depending on *how* they upgrade the hair tech... this could solve that issue completely. Just have preset areas on the mesh that can "grow hair" , then have settings for length, kink, density and color (maybe not the density). Then you're set for different races with different hair styles, and growth locations.

Klingons, Cardassians and Denobulans seem to have a sufficiently problematic hair in game... lol



Jolan'tru
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