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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
01-15-2012, 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
Mav you can craft the the AP console now
Wha? heresy! You should be forced to farm kerrat till it drops like everyone else did! Get off my lawn! Where's mah teef?
(and also get the disappointment when you realize you really are not doing more dps than you were before!)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
01-15-2012, 06:12 PM
Ever since using anti-proton it's overall useful is FAR better than any weapon atm. 6-10% to crit 20% crit harder or 2.5% to proc a random system? I'll take the damage. Anti-Proton are currently for years the best weapons and will be until the others are brought up to spec.

That's why everyone is making the switch, and anti-proton weapons and tactical consoles are double the price to 4x the price of the garbage weapons and parts. All the best fleets are use them, all the good players use them and they know why.

Cryptic, balance out the weapons already.

Anti-Proton Online? I hope not...but it looks like it will be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
01-15-2012, 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
Wha? heresy! You should be forced to farm kerrat till it drops like everyone else did! Get off my lawn! Where's mah teef?
(and also get the disappointment when you realize you really are not doing more dps than you were before!)
What?! The AP consoles do not buff said damage as much as it says.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
01-16-2012, 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt_Luke
Ever since using anti-proton it's overall useful is FAR better than any weapon atm. 6-10% to crit 20% crit harder or 2.5% to proc a random system? I'll take the damage. Anti-Proton are currently for years the best weapons and will be until the others are brought up to spec.

That's why everyone is making the switch, and anti-proton weapons and tactical consoles are double the price to 4x the price of the garbage weapons and parts. All the best fleets are use them, all the good players use them and they know why.

Cryptic, balance out the weapons already.

Anti-Proton Online? I hope not...but it looks like it will be.
Your inexperience is showing. Lets see, the worst properties in the game by the way you'll never see a CrtDX3 AP weapon, or an ACCX3, with the needing to craft to get your consoles (or farm kerrat).
CrtDX3 means that whatever energy type it is, equals AP's damage output. In the real world, barring a snare/shut down build in place the ACCX3 means it will do much higher constant dps, and crit far more often.. oh and Accuracy also adds to crit severity too.

Meaning... AP's damage is actually the worst for overall damage out put. Sure on a 100k Beam Overload 3 crit they will be doing 110k... Now how does that translate in pvp.... on a target that was already going to get fried, twice over you are doing 10k more damage. Yay?

Let's compare something abit more Tame then. Let's compare say my Acc, CrtHX2 Tetryon DHC (good luck finding those in Antiproton... You Won't) to say... the Emblem antipros. CrtDX2 Dmg.
The Antipro, in the real world, can crit for somewhere around 10-13k. ZOMG you say?, My Tetryon can crit in the same real world conditions, on average for 9-10k. Clearly the Ap is better! You say? Wrong. The AP DHC, is going to crit almost one quarter as often as my Tetryon once the bellcurve is taken into effect. This is just counting the CrtH property, and not the Accuracy which also affects crit chance.

Now let's compare that same Tetryon, to the MkX K7 AP DHC shall we? Acc CrtD CrtH, glorious you say?, Okay before you get your hopes up.. it's only an MKX vs my MkXI after skills are taken into effect that comes out to around 20dps difference. "but the payoff surely kicks in right?!" No. I still crit Twice as often. And that's not factoring in Defense scores, which once you do it skews even more heavily in favor in the Tetryons's superior weapon properties favor. Not only this, but even with the added severity, which doesn't actually add enough Hutzpah to compensate for superior property availability, AP has no proc.

Tetryon's Proc might be Horrible, but it's still a Proc... And Ap Doesn't Even Have One.
Now, let's add in the fact that Phasers, have access to every single weapon property roster, in the game, drop quite often (where as I have yet to see a non crafted, non emblem, non K7, or BGO or Borg AP weapon... and in the case of Borg... congrats you just wasted your third property so it's even worse as a weapon) and have a proc, that can literally do the following.

Shut down all aux based healing, this means some of the best heals and resists in the game, for the duration of that proc... are not available for use during it's duration unless immediately cleansed. So lets see what does this remove, and I'll play it conservative and assume it's a DPS ship like my Escort getting procced here.
native aux, it's 454 instant healing gone, 139 each sec for fifteen seconds, and 11 percent resistance to my shields. This means over the duration of Transfer Shield Strength 2, I just lost 2539 healing. 11 percent resistance loss? After all resists are taken into account multiplicative, that means I've lost about 8 percent resist which means effectively I just lost 8 percent of my 9k shields or 720 points of extra shielding.
Meaning if a phaser procced my aux, and I needed TSS2 during it's duration that's 3200 points of healing gone. Or even worse, that's healing I can't spot throw to a team mate in a pinch if I got procced.

It can, Proc your Engines, meaning my maxed out Defense Score? Just become 0 by the end of the proc. That's a -crapton- of incoming dps extra especially since invariably I'm being focused by the enemy team. Which -easily- surpasses the mere extra 10 percent extra crit severity. You can probably easily say dps taken is about double for being at 0 defense by the way. Throw that in that 3-5 ships are pounding away at me. That's -insane-.

It can Proc your weapons, Just -one- of my DHCs cranks out around 1100 dps on average. I have 3 of those. And 3 turrets out back. And we've been over how hard my DHCs can crit for. That's 5 Seconds of my Guns, which is the lifeblood of my ship being Silent. That's more than the difference between someone living or dying on the enemy team twice over. Even if you only count my DHCs in the loss and not my turrets, and torp as well (which can hit for 40k with HY up) that's 16500 damage I'm not doing, vs say a 0 defense or low defense target. (actually it's an even bigger loss than that if my target has 0 defense due to my being Accurate, and having ACC weapons) That's right, in damage prevention, a phaser weapon proc, just stopped more damage than the bonus damage of a 100k Best One in million BO3 AP Shot does. And that's not even factoring in my turrets and torp.

It can proc your shields off. Even with Emergency power on at times. Meaning in one proc, that phaser even without factoring in native and added resistances, did an effective extra 36000 damage due to knocking out all 4 shield facings at once. Once you figure in my resists you can probably add anywhere from an extra 30 to 50 percent to that. That extra 10k at 100k BO3 doesn't seem so not now does it?

And Phasers, get access to much better property combinations than Antipro. Now tell me again, why are they so good? Oh wait they aren't. Phaser's proc alone is better than any anti proton you'll find in the game. Combine it with say, the properties of my Tetryons, and the gap grows even farther still.

Disruptors same deal as Tetryon, but with a better Proc, and a much much more common drop rate. And its' Proc is the second best in the game as it lowers hull resistance by 10. Over a full team hitting you (especially with a mix of disruptors and phasers hitting home) that's a ton more damage dealt by the end of a match -constantly-.

Polaron, same deal as Tetryon almost perfectly, though for some reason Polaron weapons tend to get the best property combinations.

Plasma, this literally the only one I'd say AP stands up against favorably, and that's due to the current pvp environment. Plasma resists are a dime a dozen these days meaning plasma deals effectively 10 to fifteen less dps by default than Anti Proton. Giving AP the edge.

So congratulations, Antiproton you are the second worst weapon in the game!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
01-16-2012, 09:13 AM
The new MACO/KHG make it a real bummer for those of us that really liked plasma too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
01-16-2012, 09:33 AM
Yep Phasers pretty much best weapon PvP

Depends on your traits and build but

Acc for if it moves fast (PvP)

CritH for if it doesn't (PvE)

Crit D x 3 if you like a very rare moment of "Wtf was that dude ? You haxxed me" when your Beam overload actually hits and crits for 30-40K
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
01-16-2012, 09:56 AM
I exclusively use AP on my escorts. I tried phasers with one once, and my damage dropped precipitously because of everyone's phaser resists. It was like my weapons had lost all their teeth. I went back to AP, and my damage was higher again.

For DHCs, all my toons use Mk X [crtd]x2[crth]. That's +70% Crit Severity & +2% Crit chance. Four out of my five toons also have the same modifiers for their DBBs. The fifth (and newest) has the [acc][crtd][crth] one because I bought his after they stopped selling the [crtd]x2[crth]'s (I was using torps with him originally). All the turrets have [acc][crtd][crth], because they never sold [crtd][crth]x2 for them.

I can sometimes finish people off with just cannon crits, as they regularly crit for around 10K, often twice in a row, which can be the equivalent of a massive torp crit. My BO3 regularly crits for around 30K.

With everyone's phaser resists, I am much happier with AP for my escorts, Mavairo's analysis notwithstanding. But I like how most people still use phasers. Makes people stack resists for them instead of AP. Besides, I've found that phaser procs don't occur enough, and when they do, people can easily pop a battery or hit an "emergency power to ___" boff power to restore the subsystem within two seconds. I've found five seconds isn't long enough anyway, as I was always unlucky enough to get the proc in between damage buffs or when my cannons weren't in a firing arc, and rarely was able to take advantage of it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
01-16-2012, 10:14 AM
Which is another reason I run Tetryon instead of Phaser. People running with phaser resist shields just get melted by my Guns.

However, due to the superior weapon properties of non AP weapons, my damage is always higher than my AP toon, or if my damage is lower, my kills are much higher, due to it taking alot less to kill a given target. (having lower numbers at the end of a match isn't actually a bad thing if your kills are higher, or just as high. It actually means your ship is more efficient in the long run)

It's all about Kills, and quickness when it comes to doing damage. What good is 560k damage, at 10 kills, when you can have 480k, and 15 after all due to procs and or more efficient weapon properties.

AP is "best" as a pure energy build and on an individual ship. That being said, Phasers and other weapons (to a lesser extent) are a better team setup. Phasers in particular as they create a myriad of openings for an entire team, not necessarily just yourself. Also, shields is the only instantly noticable proc on an enemy, really you are probably proccing people more than you realize. Engines can be hard to notice, as some targets might be stationary at the time already, or snared, aux is really hard to notice unless you are familiar with the enemy's builds, and weapons is as well unless they were shooting the merry hell out of you to start with.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
01-16-2012, 11:27 AM
Well, ablative armor does protect from tetryon as well as phasers, but as you said, there's plenty of Phaser resist shields out there. I doubt anyone out there is using tetryon resist shields.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
(having lower numbers at the end of a match isn't actually a bad thing if your kills are higher, or just as high. It actually means your ship is more efficient in the long run)

It's all about Kills, and quickness when it comes to doing damage. What good is 560k damage, at 10 kills, when you can have 480k, and 15 after all due to procs and or more efficient weapon properties.
Yep, no argument here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
Phasers and other weapons (to a lesser extent) are a better team setup. Phasers in particular as they create a myriad of openings for an entire team, not necessarily just yourself
I definitely see it having a good team dynamic. More chances for a proc are always better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
Also, shields is the only instantly noticable proc on an enemy, really you are probably proccing people more than you realize. Engines can be hard to notice, as some targets might be stationary at the time already, or snared, aux is really hard to notice unless you are familiar with the enemy's builds, and weapons is as well unless they were shooting the merry hell out of you to start with.
Yeah, when I was trying phasers again I made sure to look for the proc symbol under my targets. Unless it was shields, I had a hard time telling what I procced. Engines and weapons at least give some sort of noticeable indication. When I've been procced as of late, it's been weapons most of the time, which is certainly frustrating as an escort guy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
01-16-2012, 11:33 AM
Actually ablative just works on Phasers and Disruptors.

Tetraburnium I think is the Tetryon Plas one... and there's no reason to run that one in the greater scheme of pvp, vs Ablative, (or even better Neutronium, a shield regen console, or a Shield Power console even with the post nerf to the power consoles).

Given that there's maybe what ten of us at most running Tets in pvp (I think the # is more like 4... Rock, Myself, that guy from the 300 Alex... and that one other guy).

Isn't there an Armor for Polaron and Antipros though? Keep thinking there is.
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