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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
While it's active, the Long Range Science Vessel refit has no shields and no access to beam weapons. Even with the high damage resistance, Escorts don't really have a problem killing it because its shields are down, and it can't fight back effectively. Why is it limited to 15 seconds?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
01-15-2012, 05:33 PM
I'm going to take a guess here that you are trying to use it in PVP. This is probably not such a good idea considering its weaknesses. I have had no problem with it. It completely rebuffed Donatra's attack in an Elite STF for me...only 2,000 damage instead of the 50K+ it is capable of...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
01-15-2012, 11:44 PM
The problem with boosting it is that people like me who fly armor tanked torpedo build ships would risk becoming overpowered. If I swap from my Crusier to Ablative Generator based ships I would have zero impact on damage from Ablative, would be healing crazy amounts with crazy resistance.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
01-15-2012, 11:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starboard_Nacelle View Post
While it's active, the Long Range Science Vessel refit has no shields and no access to beam weapons. Even with the high damage resistance, Escorts don't really have a problem killing it because its shields are down, and it can't fight back effectively. Why is it limited to 15 seconds?
I agree, and it's certainly not cannon, whilst using it Voyager was able to defeat many cubes and it lasted way longer than 15 sec. Whilst obviously this it can't be used for too long as it would give an unfair advantage, a little longer and the ability to fire would counter some of the Klingon spam in PvP. I bought this ship for that reason and was sorely disappointed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
01-16-2012, 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFR_MACO_Specialist
I agree, and it's certainly not cannon, whilst using it Voyager was able to defeat many cubes and it lasted way longer than 15 sec. Whilst obviously this it can't be used for too long as it would give an unfair advantage, a little longer and the ability to fire would counter some of the Klingon spam in PvP. I bought this ship for that reason and was sorely disappointed.
Also not to mention that Ablative armor comes standard with the Defiant-class ships in DS9...so it shouldn't even be a console for those of us that fly a Defiant...then again we're not using a canon Defiant-class either since we don't have a "canon" cloak.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
01-16-2012, 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFR_MACO_Specialist
I agree, and it's certainly not cannon, whilst using it Voyager was able to defeat many cubes and it lasted way longer than 15 sec. Whilst obviously this it can't be used for too long as it would give an unfair advantage, a little longer and the ability to fire would counter some of the Klingon spam in PvP. I bought this ship for that reason and was sorely disappointed.
With an obvious missing detail:

Those were cubes from 40 years before the the game-era that were unaware of this technology.
Since it was brought back into the "past" (from Endgame Admiral Janeway's PoV) its not surprising
neither the Transphasics nor the armor are as effective any more as everyone had some 40 years to analyse
these systems and find ways to counter them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
01-16-2012, 11:19 AM
Whether the generator is cannon or not has no bearing on the fact that it is the ONLY long range retrofit that does not have a toggle. The defiant can remain cloaked for as long as it wants. The cruiser can retain saucer separation for as long as it wants. But the science ship can't retain ablative for whatever reason.

I do not subscribe to the interpretation that this would make science ships overpowered. Just like someone mentioned in an earlier post, you can still be destroyed while in ablative mode in both pvp and pve. When it first came out there was a call for it to become a toggle. No one listened. I still find 15 seconds to be a disadvantage to science captains. I'd like to revisit the call for it to become a toggle.

I certainly do not see any reason hy it should not be. A toggle with an acceptable cool down similar to the sub system targeting cool down. Again like intended, beam weapons and shields would remain offline while ablative is active. Bring ablative in sync with the rest of the va ships, make ablative a TOGGLE.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
01-16-2012, 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
With an obvious missing detail:

Those were cubes from 40 years before the the game-era that were unaware of this technology.
Since it was brought back into the "past" (from Endgame Admiral Janeway's PoV) its not surprising
neither the Transphasics nor the armor are as effective any more as everyone had some 40 years to analyse
these systems and find ways to counter them.
Yes but with respect I wasn't talking about the effectiveness of the armour although that is a moot point as one could concieve of the armour being upgraded as the Borgs adapt over time, a kind of intergalactic arms race, my point was that you cannot fire nor does it last long enough to be effective, on both counts End Game shows that is just plain wrong.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
01-16-2012, 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFR_MACO_Specialist
Yes but with respect I wasn't talking about the effectiveness of the armour although that is a moot point as one could concieve of the armour being upgraded as the Borgs adapt over time, a kind of intergalactic arms race, my point was that you cannot fire nor does it last long enough to be effective, on both counts End Game shows that is just plain wrong.
As I recall you can still fire torps which is exactly the only thing Voyager seemed able to fire since the armor was covering the Phaser Emitters.
And if the system were upgraded as you suggest it would also draw more power.
Which is still possible since we don't have a baseline to compare its effectiveness compared to the "Endgame version" in turn this would also be reflected by the reduced time it can be active before it must be powered down.
However even if the system is upgraded there is one thing from military history to consider:
even when upgraded many systems are never again as devastatingly effective as they were at the time they were a complete novelty to the enemy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
01-16-2012, 11:40 AM
Ok first things first lets correct some things.

The Defiant from D9 Does not have Ablative Armor it has a thickened hull they talk about this in a few episodes the hull is just more thick or more Armored then a normal hull is.

The Generator does allow you to use Torps as shown in the tv show, it does not allow you to use beam weaps which voyager did not use ether. If you look the armor covers the Phaser arrays making them in op, now if the devs wanted to make a different version of it im sure they could. But following what you seen in the show its doing the same thing.

As for the timer i agree it should be something you can activate and leave active as long as needed without being able to use beam weaps and make torps a longer cooldown when using it. frankly I love the armor none the less looks cool when you deploy it and has saved my arse many times as I squeeze a few more sec out of my ship waiting for the cooldown on something to finish.

All around its one of the reasons why I use a Sci ship as a engy the tankablity of lining up the cooldowns is just amazing with this little ship.
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