Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I decided to do a rough calculation of the total value of a lifetime subscription if it were purchased piecemeal by a silver player. I am sure someone has already done this before and that I have made some mistakes, so feel free to correct me.


ASSUMPTIONS
1. All currently listed veteran rewards will be received.
2. Whether a player actually wants the gold benefits will be considered irrelevant.
3. Veterans rewards and other benefits are not counted unless they are sold in the c-store. (For instance, the value of the Liberated Borg race is not calculated)



CHARACTER SLOTS (Lifetime players currently will be able to receive seven)
850+500 = 1350 CP will provide the free player with eight slots but to calculate additional unlocks, we will assume that a silver player only has to outfit seven slots

INVENTORY SLOTS
3 inventory slot upgrades * 7 characters * 320 CP = 6720 CP

BANK SLOTS:
5 bank slot upgrades * 7 characters * 240 CP = 8400 CP

BRIDGE OFFICER SLOTS:
4 bridge officer slots * 7 characters * 100 CP = 2800 CP

CAPTAIN RETRAIN TOKEN:
10 Retrain tokens * 7 characters * 400 = 28000 CP

ENERGY CREDIT CAP INCREASE:
400 CP

SHIP SLOTS (I am assuming that gold and silver have the same, but do not know)
3 slots * 7 characters * 400 CP = 8400 CP

COSTUME SLOTS
200 CP

FOUNDRY SLOTS
Unknown

VA SHIP
1600 CP

TOTAL CPOINT COST FOR SILVER MEMBERS: 56520
COST IN USD: $706.50

Obviously, the big killer here is the cost of retrain tokens. If we ignore those the value of a lifetime subscription is 28520 CP or $356.50.

Clearly the lifetime subscription pays for itself over the cost of buying everything outright and that is not even considering the value of the benefits like the extra emotes or the Liberated Borg race.

Is it worth it? Well, for someone with several characters who will make full use of the stipend, it is a very good deal. For more casual players who might just play one character and fly one ship, silver is probably the better option.

If you go gold with a lifetime subscription, even ignoring the c-point stipend value and the items not sold in the c-store, you are getting $700 in value for your $300. There is certainly a real reason to go gold. I am uncertain that it will be enough to convince most of the new silver players, but the value is certainly. Of course, we are talking about intangible assets which you cannot sell and which you might not actually really need.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
01-19-2012, 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakarak
I decided to do a rough calculation of the total value of a lifetime subscription if it were purchased piecemeal by a silver player. I am sure someone has already done this before and that I have made some mistakes, so feel free to correct me.


ASSUMPTIONS
1. All currently listed veteran rewards will be received.
2. Whether a player actually wants the gold benefits will be considered irrelevant.
3. Veterans rewards and other benefits are not counted unless they are sold in the c-store. (For instance, the value of the Liberated Borg race is not calculated)



CHARACTER SLOTS (Lifetime players currently will be able to receive seven)
850+500 = 1350 CP will provide the free player with eight slots but to calculate additional unlocks, we will assume that a silver player only has to outfit seven slots

INVENTORY SLOTS
3 inventory slot upgrades * 7 characters * 320 CP = 6720 CP

BANK SLOTS:
5 bank slot upgrades * 7 characters * 240 CP = 8400 CP

BRIDGE OFFICER SLOTS:
4 bridge officer slots * 7 characters * 100 CP = 2800 CP

CAPTAIN RETRAIN TOKEN:
10 Retrain tokens * 7 characters * 400 = 28000 CP

ENERGY CREDIT CAP INCREASE:
400 CP

SHIP SLOTS (I am assuming that gold and silver have the same, but do not know)
3 slots * 7 characters * 400 CP = 8400 CP

COSTUME SLOTS
200 CP

FOUNDRY SLOTS
Unknown

VA SHIP
1600 CP

TOTAL CPOINT COST FOR SILVER MEMBERS: 56520
COST IN USD: $706.50

Obviously, the big killer here is the cost of retrain tokens. If we ignore those the value of a lifetime subscription is 28520 CP or $356.50.

Clearly the lifetime subscription pays for itself over the cost of buying everything outright and that is not even considering the value of the benefits like the extra emotes or the Liberated Borg race.

Is it worth it? Well, for someone with several characters who will make full use of the stipend, it is a very good deal. For more casual players who might just play one character and fly one ship, silver is probably the better option.

If you go gold with a lifetime subscription, even ignoring the c-point stipend value and the items not sold in the c-store, you are getting $700 in value for your $300. There is certainly a real reason to go gold. I am uncertain that it will be enough to convince most of the new silver players, but the value is certainly. Of course, we are talking about intangible assets which you cannot sell and which you might not actually really need.
Give it time...the way things are going all the "so called" perks for gold will end up in the C-Store as an ala carte option.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
01-19-2012, 06:13 PM
You need to re-do your calculations for a silver that pays 15 bucks and unlocks and keeps all their gold perks.

That's the only real fair way to do the compairison. And remember the moment you become gold you get 3 toon slots and then keep them even when you roll back down to silver. You need to see it as "what the least amount of money I can spend and get an LTS equivalent experience"

You should also frame your conclusion by saying something like: You will save X amount if you roll 7 toons. Most folks don't roll that many toons so you need to consider the "average" buyer.

Edit: And foundry slots are "free" for silvers, they cost dilithium. This and the ships that also cost dilithium for silvers is hard to put a price on. But If I was a Silver I would just buy the +1 ships and ignore the ship token dilithium nonsense.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
01-19-2012, 06:17 PM
And even if they do roll 7 toons (which probably only a tiny fraction of people do) this also assumes that they max out each one.

To put it simply, this is a very fringe case comparison and is not very representative of the typical "value" of an LTS.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
01-19-2012, 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdox View Post
You need to re-do your calculations for a silver that pays 15 bucks and unlocks and keeps all their gold perks.

That's the only real fair way to do the compairison. And remember the moment you become gold you get 3 toon slots and then keep them even when you roll back down to silver. You need to see it as "what the least amount of money I can spend and get an LTS equivalent experience"

You should also frame your conclusion by saying something like: You will save X amount if you roll 7 toons. Most folks don't roll that many toons so you need to consider the "average" buyer.
I would, but I am not really all that clear on the process of gold-to-silver conversions as Cryptic has not published them and I am not going to do empirical research. If someone wants to provide an explicit point-by-point explanation of the conversion process, I might take a look at that.

Just for instance, if you use your third slot as a gold member then convert to silver and delete that character, do you lose the slot or do you keep it?

If you have a VA and switch to gold, do you get more inventory slots or do you have to be gold when you hit each level to get the slot?

As for your other suggestion, I am not interested in guessing about what an "average" person would do. I am simply interested in calculating what the value of a gold/lifetime membership is.

If someone can, with certainty, explicitly state everything you get by simply going gold for a month (not leveling up a character as gold, just subscribing for a month) that you get to keep, I might consider redoing the calculation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
01-19-2012, 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormnnorm
And even if they do roll 7 toons (which probably only a tiny fraction of people do) this also assumes that they max out each one.

To put it simply, this is a very fringe case comparison and is not very representative of the typical "value" of an LTS.
Also you assume each toon needs to use all those retrain tokens. I've used 3 retain tokens across 10 toons in 2 years. Most folks do not respec that often and now with the power revamp I expect even less will.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
01-19-2012, 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdox View Post
Also you assume each toon needs to use all those retrain tokens. I've used 3 retain tokens across 10 toons in 2 years. Most folks do not respec that often and now with the power revamp I expect even less will.
No, I explicitly stated that I am not assuming anything about what someone needs. I am simply listing the cost to a silver member were he to buy everything as a c-store unlock.

But, since the retrain tokens were such a significant fraction of the value of the lifetime subscription, I made sure to include the value of everything else separately as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
01-19-2012, 06:35 PM
This is all im personally interested in.

Energy credit cap increase:
400 CP

VA SHIP
1600 CP

Bank Slot
240 CP

Inventory Slot
320 CP

I only need 4 character slots, 3 feds, 1 kling.
500 CP

3060 points total = 24 GPB / $38

I could go gold for one month to gets some of the above aswell.

So for me personally your calculations are way way off and for most players are way way off aswell.
Lifetime membership is not worth it, no way in hell. Stop giving cryptic more money than they deserve.

And thats IF they dont do a sale which of course there always is one eventually....for both cstore and lifetime membership.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
01-19-2012, 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakarak
No, I explicitly stated that I am not assuming anything about what someone needs. I am simply listing the cost to a silver member were he to buy everything as a c-store unlock.

But, since the retrain tokens were such a significant fraction of the value of the lifetime subscription, I made sure to include the value of everything else separately as well.
Yeah, its the retain tokens is where they get you. But thats the rub, most folks don't use them. I did the same type of calculation when F2P was anounced and I think I found an LTS only saves you about 80 bucks vs a silver who buys ala carte. But that was before the gold to silver rules were anounced.

My conclusion at the time was an LTS is only worth it if you roll more then 5 toons.

And USS-Tiberius has a good point, We've seen services in the C-store get discounted 50%. And for sure we'll see a 20% sale soon enough. No one needs to buy 5 retains or all the gold perks in one shot. A silver could easily play fine for now then pick up the perks when they go on sale.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
01-19-2012, 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdox View Post
Yeah, its the retain tokens is where they get you. But thats the rub, most folks don't use them. I did the same type of calculation when F2P was anounced and I think I found an LTS only saves you about 80 bucks vs a silver who buys ala carte. But that was before the gold to silver rules were anounced.

My conclusion at the time was an LTS is only worth it if you roll more then 5 toons.
I couldn't agree with you more.


The op is stating some pretty basic 'facts' but making some very extreme assumptions. In fact, I don't know of anyone personally that would be part of the case that the OP is describing. While technically speaking the information provided is correct, the attitude/wording of the OP makes it seem like a big deal.

Only the most extreme fringe case will net you that '470 USD savings' and even then, I doubt you'll find that to be the case as someone that would be spending that kinda money would be doing some pretty bizzare purchases.

The 'true value' of a LTS is dependent on the person, but there is room to argue the 'average value' which would be in things everyone would really benefit from(IE: bank slots, inventory slots) and where many players would benefit(character slots). Things such as the retrain tokens really make the 'value' skewed IMO, especially since I would venture that the GRAND majority of players wouldn't use 85% of those.

The amount of savings is also fairly skewed due to how often many 'hot items' go on sale and that no silver player would really benefit from buying everything in one cart purchase.
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