Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
01-21-2012, 09:24 PM
lets get you in a different ship bro.

if you want to heal/support...go star cruiser or intrepid.

matter of fact, you can be unbelievably offensive as an engie in the intrepid.

to do damage, go MVAE and a cannon loadout.

an engineer can be very effective in any ship. but whats most important is that you have a team to regularly play with, and build a complimentary system. your engie fleet, eps, and nadion are key roles to fill that a lot of teams really need. have you ever given your escort an extend shields and a eps power transfer?

how do you not feel effective with that?

have fun kill bad guys

horizon
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
01-21-2012, 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHorizon
lets get you in a different ship bro.

if you want to heal/support...go star cruiser or intrepid.

matter of fact, you can be unbelievably offensive as an engie in the intrepid.

to do damage, go MVAE and a cannon loadout.

an engineer can be very effective in any ship. but whats most important is that you have a team to regularly play with, and build a complimentary system. your engie fleet, eps, and nadion are key roles to fill that a lot of teams really need. have you ever given your escort an extend shields and a eps power transfer?

how do you not feel effective with that?

have fun kill bad guys

horizon
Have any tactics that don't cost $50?

Some pearls of wisdom here, but for the most part, I don't see doing any of the above being effective. Since I've tried them all. Rest is basic tactics 101; you're preaching to the choir.

A engineer is a waste in an escort, imo. It's fun, cause you're tanky, but you won't break any experienced players defense.

A sci ship does have merit, if properly specced. I've had fun there. It's what I'm speccing for next. Specifically I wanted too see if anyone was having luck in any cruisers. But for now, I think I'm gonna shelve it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
01-21-2012, 10:28 PM
there is definitely an inequity in the careers, and ship types. escorts can mow you down, and can usually shrug off any meager damage an engineering cruiser can cause, in a 1 on 1 each should at least have a chance of beating the other. science vessels can cause all sorts of lol i troll you damage and disable you long enough to set you up at an easy kill AND shield tank all day. cruisers can absorb an absurd amount of damage and deal nothing of consequence, that out of line with the other 2 ship types.

engineers and cruisers have a hard cap that the other 2 careers don't have, and that is with energy levels. engineers don't have high damage buffing skills or debuffing skills, they have energy level buffs and heals. heals are always nice, but when EPtX or EPS Power Transfer runs into weapons or shield hard caps its not doing you as much good as it should be. its especially bad with engineers in cruisers, with all those engineering station powers, your bound to have at least 100% up time with EPtS. engineering powers can boost your energy levels to astronomical levels, +24, +32, and +40, not that you can use most of that in weapons for example.

whats the point of that huge amount of energy level boost if your near hardcaps without them? those pathetic + energy consoles with their meager +7, and now the laughably worthless +3.5 are a drop in the bucket by comparison. the other ships do not have access to any meaningful energy level manipulation, its all cruisers there, and its hardcaped at 50% of their potential, its a joke. imagine if they caped how high a percentage your damage could be buffed, making using APO, APA, and GDF together be worthless, or if target subsystem couldn't drain someones energy to 0 or you couldn't debuff someone beyond a certain %, its the same thing.

i can understand an effect cap of 125, but in the case of weapons that drain power every shot, having a large pool of energy beyond that would give you quite a few shots fired at the125 effect cap power level. seeing as cruiser weapons like beam arrays and single cannons do drop in the bucket damage, and cruisers have no real damage boosters other then that, 125 being only an effect cap and not a hard cap gives cruisers a way to actually deal a more noticeable DOT. kind of like that short time when they run Nadion Inverison, only better.

of course, there's a high opportunity cost for potential heals when your focusing on making your weapons power as high as possible. using both LTC stations to keep EPtW 3 up at all times means no ET3, ES2, RSP2, AUXtoSTC2, AUXtoDAM2, and of course no EPtS3. there was the engineering energy consoles too, those have an opportunity cost, or did. they would have displaced other important consoles in the pursue of max energy, but not really anymore. at 3.5 max they are well and truly useless. weapons performance is a VERY expensive skill on the skill tree, so boosting levels there would cost your other skills.

with out that hardcap cruisers would at least have the option to contribute more then just heals to the battlefield, and us users would have more fun, kicking *** is fun. if you cant kick at least a little *** in your favorite ship you might just lose interest and peace out. that's why i play maybe once a week! im just soo unhappy with cruisers now that its basically no fun at all to play this game. loose that hard cap and engineers and cruisers are fixed, within this flawed system.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
01-21-2012, 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
there is definitely an inequity in the careers, and ship types. escorts can mow you down, and can usually shrug off any meager damage an engineering cruiser can cause, in a 1 on 1 each should at least have a chance of beating the other. science vessels can cause all sorts of lol i troll you damage and disable you long enough to set you up at an easy kill AND shield tank all day. cruisers can absorb an absurd amount of damage and deal nothing of consequence, that out of line with the other 2 ship types.
The one thing that was asked in beta pretty frequently is that engineers having the ability to 'take damage' and 'reflect damage' more. We've got feedback pulse now, but it's effects are kinda meh. We've got TSS, which is great and all; but some form of 'cover' would help engie feel a lot more useful as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
01-21-2012, 10:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loyaltrekie View Post
The one thing that was asked in beta pretty frequently is that engineers having the ability to 'take damage' and 'reflect damage' more. We've got feedback pulse now, but it's effects are kinda meh. We've got TSS, which is great and all; but some form of 'cover' would help engie feel a lot more useful as well.
The worst part is that it's technically not engineers that get that. They're science skills.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
01-22-2012, 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHorizon
matter of fact, you can be unbelievably offensive as an engie in the intrepid.
QFT

/10char
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
01-22-2012, 09:08 AM
Quote:
Have any tactics that don't cost $50?

Some pearls of wisdom here, but for the most part, I don't see doing any of the above being effective. Since I've tried them all. Rest is basic tactics 101; you're preaching to the choir.

A engineer is a waste in an escort, imo. It's fun, cause you're tanky, but you won't break any experienced players defense.

A sci ship does have merit, if properly specced. I've had fun there. It's what I'm speccing for next. Specifically I wanted too see if anyone was having luck in any cruisers. But for now, I think I'm gonna shelve it.
An engineer is not neccessarily a waste in an escort. And not certainly not for your argument that you wont break any experienced players defense. Even in a TAC/escort you cannot break an average players defense who knows about tanking. Even the basic emergency powers to shields 2 combined with tactical team will tank a tac/escorts full alpha strike at numbers of 4200 dps... etc etc

No single player can break another players defense who has proper defense. Takes team effort.

I think cannon rapid fire UP time needs increasing from 10 seconds to 15 - 20 seconds. Most tank skills last for 30 seconds. Such as empts.....again damage skills are not on par with tanking skills, nor are there as many. For the ones there are, glaring defficiencies such as the small up time listed above is glaring. You cannot break anyones tank in 10 seconds. Then your dps cuts in half when CRF is gone.

Also again as I mentioned before, the damage skills are high ranked, cmdr level, a lot of tankign skills are effective at low levels, ensign/ LT
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
01-22-2012, 09:13 AM
I would have to agree with Crus.in, i play engie in a defiant, have done a very long time. I beg to differ that engies in escorts are a waist. I have many a time been a royal pain to kill, at the same time as dealing very good damage. Granted will never be as high as a tact but its high enough for my share of kills with the odd weapons battery here and there along with the doffs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
01-22-2012, 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
whats the point of that huge amount of energy level boost if your near hardcaps without them? those pathetic + energy consoles with their meager +7, and now the laughably worthless +3.5 are a drop in the bucket by comparison. the other ships do not have access to any meaningful energy level manipulation, its all cruisers there, and its hardcaped at 50% of their potential, its a joke. imagine if they caped how high a percentage your damage could be buffed, making using APO, APA, and GDF together be worthless, or if target subsystem couldn't drain someones energy to 0 or you couldn't debuff someone beyond a certain %, its the same thing.
I agree completely. I run a Sovereign with three DBBs up front and 3 BAs in the back and Eptw 1 and 3 but with that 125 hard cap on weapon power I can’t hurt anyone. I have to wait for a Tac to drop someone’s shield and hope I can get a torp in. If we had a large pool of power that we could only tap 125 out of at a time that would go a long way towards helping. For instance, I run my weapon power at 100. Add on EptW3 (+39) and EPt3 (+32) and I should have 171. Then a beam overload (-50) wouldn’t drag me down so much I have to stop firing for 3 sec to recharge but only down to 121. If I skip BO1 then every beam attack would fire at 125. It would give the engineers teeth but not nearly as much as a tac and make all those wonderful energy granting skills worth it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
01-22-2012, 09:48 AM
Everyone is so afraid of dieing in PvP alot of players stack their ship full of heal buffs not realizing the true potential of their ship. Get rid of an Aux to Sif throw in a DEM, Drop the FaW and try some Beta. Drop the beams all together and throw on some cannons and turrets. (DEM is marvelous with this) An engineer can put out some good dps in a cruiser with the right BO slots. Not taking out their shields?!? Warp plasma/ Plasma torpedos. Scorch their HULLS!! Screw it arm yourself with torpedos to the teeth! If you cant kill their ship kill their crew and reduce their chances to heal. Offensive trickory in a cruiser?!? Yes! drown them in warp plasma and while they are distracted launch a boarding party!! Torpedos away!!! If your gonna fly around in a monkey beam boat dont expect great results. Mix it up. Get mad scientist on your build.
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