Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
01-22-2012, 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otheym81 View Post
Have any tactics that don't cost $50?

Some pearls of wisdom here, but for the most part, I don't see doing any of the above being effective. Since I've tried them all. Rest is basic tactics 101; you're preaching to the choir.

A engineer is a waste in an escort, imo. It's fun, cause you're tanky, but you won't break any experienced players defense.

A sci ship does have merit, if properly specced. I've had fun there. It's what I'm speccing for next. Specifically I wanted too see if anyone was having luck in any cruisers. But for now, I think I'm gonna shelve it.
You can always go with a Fleet Escort, its got plenty of Tactical consoles and Boffs, but still gives you some Engineer stuff, and 200 crew to work with. It'll do more dps than an 8 beam broadside for sure (which Ive never seen the point of with energy drain and all). It'll also keep you from the C-Store.

My suggestion, however, is the T5 Excelsior with a fair loadout of 3xDBB 1x Torp in the front or Cannon/Torp/Turret combo and take advantage of your power boosting abilities for real volley damage. For the DBB combo, youll need to work the turn rate up, but it woint be that hard, before the newest skill changes I had one turning 24.4 degrees per second when I when with a full turn ship
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
01-22-2012, 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlaffargue
Everyone is so afraid of dieing in PvP alot of players stack their ship full of heal buffs not realizing the true potential of their ship. Get rid of an Aux to Sif throw in a DEM, Drop the FaW and try some Beta. Drop the beams all together and throw on some cannons and turrets. (DEM is marvelous with this) An engineer can put out some good dps in a cruiser with the right BO slots. Not taking out their shields?!? Warp plasma/ Plasma torpedos. Scorch their HULLS!! Screw it arm yourself with torpedos to the teeth! If you cant kill their ship kill their crew and reduce their chances to heal. Offensive trickory in a cruiser?!? Yes! drown them in warp plasma and while they are distracted launch a boarding party!! Torpedos away!!! If your gonna fly around in a monkey beam boat dont expect great results. Mix it up. Get mad scientist on your build.
we have had 2 years to try everything, and we have. i wish DEM was actually effective, but its basically sucks and cant damage your enemy's hull faster then the crew based regeneration can fix it, and its dependent on your energy level that gets lowered every time you fire. the only time DEM has shown any effect is with a tac in an excelsior running all single cannons and turrets doing its very best to alpha strike.

any science ship that uses feedback pulse and an aux battery will have the same effect, only it will be doing between 2-8 times the damage you could ever hope DEM would cause. a cruiser with too many torpedoes will never be able to knock down any ships shields, and the only time you can get a good player stuck in plasma is if they are sitting right behind you trying to kill you, its useful then. we have tried everything and nothing works, thus this thread.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
01-22-2012, 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlaffargue
Everyone is so afraid of dieing in PvP alot of players stack their ship full of heal buffs not realizing the true potential of their ship. Get rid of an Aux to Sif throw in a DEM, Drop the FaW and try some Beta. Drop the beams all together and throw on some cannons and turrets. (DEM is marvelous with this) An engineer can put out some good dps in a cruiser with the right BO slots. Not taking out their shields?!? Warp plasma/ Plasma torpedos. Scorch their HULLS!! Screw it arm yourself with torpedos to the teeth! If you cant kill their ship kill their crew and reduce their chances to heal. Offensive trickory in a cruiser?!? Yes! drown them in warp plasma and while they are distracted launch a boarding party!! Torpedos away!!! If your gonna fly around in a monkey beam boat dont expect great results. Mix it up. Get mad scientist on your build.
Youíre right on some points especially the offensive trickery but keep in mind that with every trick you experiment with comes a respec. As for your other points, the thing is APbeta is useless for engineers. It gives a resistance buff that we donít need and does nothing for the dps. Cruisers cannot load heavy cannons so that doesnít help and although plasma torps sound good, the damage from the plasma fires do not stack and so just isnít that potent.
Also, why shouldn't I be able to expect a six beam broadside to be effective? Broad siding is what ships of the line do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
01-22-2012, 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by badnewsoit View Post
As for your other points, the thing is APbeta is useless for engineers. It gives a resistance buff that we donít need and does nothing for the dps.
Beta puts a damage resist debuff on whatever target you're shooting at, so it very much is good for dps for your whole team. You might be thinking of Delta, which if so means you're unaware of the damage resist debuff it puts on anything firing on the ship its put on (since you can use it on allies as well). The worst result you can get with Delta is that you've forced your enemies (plural, since it's applied to all attacking ships) to blow a tac team clearing it off.

Neither is worthless by any means.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
01-22-2012, 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resz
Beta puts a damage resist debuff on whatever target you're shooting at, so it very much is good for dps for your whole team. You might be thinking of Delta, which if so means you're unaware of the damage resist debuff it puts on anything firing on the ship its put on (since you can use it on allies as well). The worst result you can get with Delta is that you've forced your enemies (plural, since it's applied to all attacking ships) to blow a tac team clearing it off.

Neither is worthless by any means.
beta is still useless if you cant breach shields, its a debuff only to hull, which is BS
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
01-22-2012, 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
beta is still useless if you cant breach shields, its a debuff only to hull, which is BS
Oh, really? Haha, yeah, that is godawful, especially in this frightening new age of endless shield tanking.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
01-22-2012, 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
beta is still useless if you cant breach shields, its a debuff only to hull, which is BS
Still boosts the amount of damage you're doing through shields.

FAW + Beta + DEM is pretty nifty. Nowhere near Tac/Escort, of course, but still potent.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
01-22-2012, 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resz
Oh, really? Haha, yeah, that is godawful, especially in this frightening new of endless shield tanking.
no kidding, only a full escort alpha strike is gonna kill a facing fast enough for you to benefit from using beta, and you will proboly need omega anyway to breach the shields in the first place. fire on my mark is the same way, hull debuff only.

if beta debuffed shields and hull it would be a perfect cruiser option and great for the damage over time they cause.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
01-22-2012, 05:32 PM
well, i hopped in my engie again for a bit today to see if i was missing something.....because some of the posts here are really getting behind the fact that they feel useless.

i have no idea what you guys are talking about.

it could be that you just do not like flying as an engineering captain. in that case just level another toon.

engineers are not supposed to do the damage of a tac captain. period. what would be the reason of this? they are also not supposed to be able to debuff and crowd control like sci captains can. what would be the point if they did?

engineers get the most out of their ships. their strengths lay in the fact that, no matter what type of ship they fly, its always the toughest compared to any other captain. and this is by far still the case.

im just stunned at the attitude carrying through this thread that everyone should be able to do everything. what would be the point of this? its a multiplayer game that is supposed to encourage teamplay. especially in pvp. you can run through pve in this game with any toon and have no problem. if you want to be an engineer in pvp, focus on your strenghts and build your ship around them.

too bad we cannot name the names on the best pilots in the game here on the forums, but guess what, quite a few of them are engineering toons in cruisers. they quite often lead in damage, kills, and healing all at once. the pandas have a couple great engie/cruiser toons, and they are often the lynchpin of the match.

have fun, keep looking for the build that fits your style, kill bad guys

horizon
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
01-22-2012, 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
we have had 2 years to try everything, and we have. i wish DEM was actually effective, but its basically sucks and cant damage your enemy's hull faster then the crew based regeneration can fix it, and its dependent on your energy level that gets lowered every time you fire. the only time DEM has shown any effect is with a tac in an excelsior running all single cannons and turrets doing its very best to alpha strike.

any science ship that uses feedback pulse and an aux battery will have the same effect, only it will be doing between 2-8 times the damage you could ever hope DEM would cause. a cruiser with too many torpedoes will never be able to knock down any ships shields, and the only time you can get a good player stuck in plasma is if they are sitting right behind you trying to kill you, its useful then. we have tried everything and nothing works, thus this thread.
Here's someone who gets it. TY drunk. We've been around the block, and seen it all. I want to run down the list of tactics so people stop posting them here. Cruisers only. Keep in mind, I've played against the best. I know what works,

Emergency power to *blank*
Shields are excellent, in all cases. Practically standard. Weapons gives a little decent buff for 5 seconds, not bad. Engines is mildly useful, as well as Aux. Use it as you see fit. You can run two of the same for 100% uptime, and a third in between.

Aux to *blank*
Good skills in combination with sci powers. SIF is a great resist and heal skill. Every 15 seconds is nice. Can keep someone alive long enough to land bigger heals. Battery is a waste in a cruiser, imo. You should have pretty high lvls overall. Inertial Dampeners would be good if it gave immunity to slows, but sadly, nope. Better off with SIF.

Warp Plasma
Good defensive counter, specially against a tac on your butt. Clears out drones well. Limited offensive use, but can be used.

DEM
For the love of all that's holy, DO NOT use in a beam cruiser. It's a total waste. It puts on a set amount of damage PER SHOT, and since beams fire so slowly, you'd be better off raising your weapon power. Ironically, very deadly for cannons, combined with rapid fire.

Aceton Field
The damage debuff is excellent. The radiation damage itself is laughable. Good for saving a buddy with an escort riding him. 90 degree forward range makes using it against a target on your back problematic. Hit evasive and a quick reverse to turn your bow toward the attacker.

Extend Shields
A nice resist and small heal for an ally, the drawback is an obvious beam leading back to your ship and a 7.5km range. In full AUX heal mode, throw all power to shields and aux, use this, SIF, and a TSS, and even a hazard, and watch your heal target become invincible. NOTE: Why is this 7.5km and channeled, unlike almost EVERYTHING ELSE? sigh

Engineering Team
The old standby. Gives some big heals. Run two if you're serious about hull healing.


There we go. Off the top of my head, there are all the powers and weaknesses of engineering. Almost zero offensive utility. The only threat a Engineer poses is his heals. I have yet to every remember any engineer in a cruiser or escort that actually posed a threat to me, or was worth remembering.

I've played with my fleet escort. I've killed numerous people. I've no doubt some of the rest of you had as well. Sometimes I almost feel good about it. But against any notable PvPer, specially in MACO and Klingon shields, I've had no luck. Sometimes it's a stalemate, but more often, I'm always on the defensive.

However, my Sci ship build is another matter entirely. I won't go into it, cause I consider it pretty darn good. And somewhat unconventional. Surprise is your greatest weapon. Just ask the Klingons!
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