Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
01-22-2012, 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHorizon
well, i hopped in my engie again for a bit today to see if i was missing something.....because some of the posts here are really getting behind the fact that they feel useless.

i have no idea what you guys are talking about.

it could be that you just do not like flying as an engineering captain. in that case just level another toon.

engineers are not supposed to do the damage of a tac captain. period. what would be the reason of this? they are also not supposed to be able to debuff and crowd control like sci captains can. what would be the point if they did?

engineers get the most out of their ships. their strengths lay in the fact that, no matter what type of ship they fly, its always the toughest compared to any other captain. and this is by far still the case.

im just stunned at the attitude carrying through this thread that everyone should be able to do everything. what would be the point of this? its a multiplayer game that is supposed to encourage teamplay. especially in pvp. you can run through pve in this game with any toon and have no problem. if you want to be an engineer in pvp, focus on your strenghts and build your ship around them.

too bad we cannot name the names on the best pilots in the game here on the forums, but guess what, quite a few of them are engineering toons in cruisers. they quite often lead in damage, kills, and healing all at once. the pandas have a couple great engie/cruiser toons, and they are often the lynchpin of the match.

have fun, keep looking for the build that fits your style, kill bad guys

horizon
missing the point, and it sounds like its some kind of corporate pr spin. cruisers and engineers aren't suppose to deal damage? says who? science and tactical get results at the push of a button, hit a buff your weapons damage more, hit a debuff your enemy is immobilized. engineers effect energy level that then effects potency of skills and weapons, it not a direct result like it is for science and tactical. a more accurate description of an engineer in a cruiser would be an energy level master, his strength is boosting weapons and abilities by increasing the power to their systems. he cant really be used like that though because lol hardcaps prevent that energy level mastery from being used as an advantage.


escorts can deal direct and fast damage that is actually deadly. they are unique in being able to do that. it doesn't necessarily result in big scoreboard numbers, but it results in actual kills.

science ships can tank and prevent you from doing effective damage to them. all the wile they strip your shields, immobilize you and use your own attempts to damage them against you.

cruisers can tank and heal a little better then science ships. they can also spew worthless damage over time that accomplishes nothing, other then a big number on a score board.

if anything its science ships that can already do everything, we just want cruisers to be a bit more like science ships in that regard. the ship types would be balanced if a cruiser's damage over time could be increased wile their defense was decreased by sacrificing defensive powers and heals to set up a DOT build. that was basically detailed in this post- http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...8&postcount=13

the point is everyone in every ship needs to be able to do damage, if you cant do damage you will never accomplish anything. healing is only needed if there is damage in the first place, and should never be as strong as damage like it is in game now. this damage/heal yoyo is stupid, unrealistic and unfun, and the entire system suffered from overemphasizing on teamplay at the expense of gameplay. this is especially apparent when you look and see how astronomically high the skill bar of entry in for pvp, the difference between a noob and elite should not be so astronomically high. the easiness of pve is also partly to blame for this too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
01-22-2012, 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
missing the point, and it sounds like its some kind of corporate pr spin. cruisers and engineers aren't suppose to deal damage? says who? science and tactical get results at the push of a button, hit a buff your weapons damage more, hit a debuff your enemy is immobilized. engineers effect energy level that then effects potency of skills and weapons, it not a direct result like it is for science and tactical. a more accurate description of an engineer in a cruiser would be an energy level master, his strength is boosting weapons and abilities by increasing the power to their systems. he cant really be used like that though because lol hardcaps prevent that energy level mastery from being used as an advantage.


escorts can deal direct and fast damage that is actually deadly. they are unique in being able to do that. it doesn't necessarily result in big scoreboard numbers, but it results in actual kills.

science ships can tank and prevent you from doing effective damage to them. all the wile they strip your shields, immobilize you and use your own attempts to damage them against you.

cruisers can tank and heal a little better then science ships. they can also spew worthless damage over time that accomplishes nothing, other then a big number on a score board.

if anything its science ships that can already do everything, we just want cruisers to be a bit more like science ships in that regard. the ship types would be balanced if a cruiser's damage over time could be increased wile their defense was decreased by sacrificing defensive powers and heals to set up a DOT build. that was basically detailed in this post- http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...8&postcount=13

the point is everyone in every ship needs to be able to do damage, if you cant do damage you will never accomplish anything. healing is only needed if there is damage in the first place, and should never be as strong as damage like it is in game now. this damage/heal yoyo is stupid, unrealistic and unfun, and the entire system suffered from overemphasizing on teamplay at the expense of gameplay. this is especially apparent when you look and see how astronomically high the skill bar of entry in for pvp, the difference between a noob and elite should not be so astronomically high. the easiness of pve is also partly to blame for this too.
i think you should read my post again. the best cruisers in the game lead in kills, damage, and healing all at one time. and i also want everyone to have fun.

engineers have a tougher time doing damage compared to their counterparts due to the innate powers they posess. all focused on survivability and power. not buffing attack strength, or defuffing the targets defense.

also, did you just say the system is suffering from overemphasising on teamplay?

i actually have no more comments for this thread at this time. good luck with all of your builds, i hope you find something that works.

horizon
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
01-22-2012, 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHorizon
i think you should read my post again. the best cruisers in the game lead in kills, damage, and healing all at one time. and i also want everyone to have fun.
i was gunna let that score board comment go but i see your still fixated on it. you honestly think those scoreboard numbers mean anything? seriously? cruisers have high damage number on those boards because they are firing constantly with thier large firing arcs. a majority of the damage they cause gets negated by the passive crew based heal, the rest of it from active heals. they barley are able to apply pressure to the enemy team with their damage, they aren't actually killing anyone.

the kill numbers are a result of them hitting a target that gets killed by an escort or mobbed by the team. if the cruiser is using FAW it gets credit for EVERY ship the team finishes off!

the only thing that's really meaningful on that board is the number of deaths, and the heal number, that is if the person doing the healing gets credit, not the healed. cant recall if that ever got fixed, still see escorts with quite high heal numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHorizon
engineers have a tougher time doing damage compared to their counterparts due to the innate powers they posess. all focused on survivability and power. not buffing attack strength, or defuffing the targets defense.

engineers have a tougher time doing damage compared to their counterparts due to the hard cap on the innate powers they posess. seeing as they cant damage, all focus gets put on survivability

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHorizon
also, did you just say the system is suffering from overemphasising on teamplay?

i actually have no more comments for this thread at this time. good luck with all of your builds, i hope you find something that works.

horizon
your glorious team play amounts to elite teams pub stomping or having 5 hour matches with each other. learning curve is to high, solo builds and play styles that are fun in pve are wrong and don't work, its no wonder pvp is in the state its in.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
01-22-2012, 08:06 PM
okay maybe 1 more comment.

sigh.

have fun kill bad guys

horizon
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
01-22-2012, 09:36 PM
Maybe I missed the point here but as an engineer I don't want nor expect to do damage like a tac. The point I am pushing is to simply take the energy boosting abilities of the engineer class to their logical conclusion. If I slap the EPtW3 and am already at 110 power then I should have some reserves. I don't see how this would make me hit as hard as a tac captian since I would still only be able to fire at 125. If I have six beams they will still drain my weapon power just not as fast.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
01-22-2012, 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHorizon
okay maybe 1 more comment.

sigh.

have fun kill bad guys

horizon
Sorry you failed to make your point. Drunk is right: you're fixated on the numbers at the end of the match. Means absolutely nothing. My cruiser has topped damage and healing in matches. And 15 kills across the board. What does that mean?

I means I went fricking beam happy with FAW, torpedo spread, and healed a crapton. And was shooting something that died.

Your disgust at our attitude, tipping your chin high, claiming your skillful player high ground, is childish. Until I'm proven otherwise... well... then we'll talk.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37 Need Help?
01-22-2012, 10:46 PM
Hey man message me sometime in game. I'm one of the best tank/dps cruiser players in the game. I'll show you how to damage as an engineer and laugh at a premade trying to destory you.

More than happy to help you or anyone else out there that needs it.

Just message me at one of the following:

#1. Luke@Capt_Luke
#2. Gommo@Capt_Luke
#3. J'Var@Capt_Luke

Take Care!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
01-22-2012, 11:32 PM
The STF gear & doffs have made ships much harder to deal damage too let alone kill. Imo, this was by design to placate those who complained the fights were too short. An unintended result is the modest damage cruisers generally did is now much lower and the need to cross heal is less. My general suggestion would be to use phasers to try and trigger its proc, target subsystems (engines and shields), ewp&apb, tractor beam/tbr, cront mines/torp (ie less sci heals more sci cc, more spikes of disruptive/disabling tac skills less focus on continuous pressure dps tac skills).

Or switch to another ship until the wheel turns and offense gets buffed like FaW was for many months (pretty much 1/2 year boost for cruiser last year if my memory serves me correctly).

Or switch to KDF fly a BoP and make the most out of using high engineer power levels with w/e you want to fill the universal slots with. This way regardless of what the fotm op powers are you can adjust how you see fit.

Keep in mind w/the current op p2w model there will always be a new op power around the corner. It's bound to hit cruisers again like faw did last year. Since most players focus on Feds it'll last quite some time too, remember last years FaW? Be patient your P2W Enterprise is just around the corner.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
01-23-2012, 12:31 AM
How is it that you guys are so completely hopeless when you've been playing for two years? The guy who outfitted a cruiser with three DBBs, three single arrays, and two torps and can't figure out why he isn't doing damage is particularly hilarious :p

So far the only poster in this thread that seems to know anything about the game is CaptainHorizon, apart from the silly statement about putting an engineer in a science vessel. (engineers should only ever play cruisers, and there's no point to flying an engineer sv over a sci/sci)

The people who complain that engineers cannot do damage do not understand how power management works, exemplified by the poster who views 125 weapons as a hard cap despite the fact that there are a number of intricacies beyond that point. Eight single beam arrays (if you use any other combination of weapons you are doing it wrong, sorry) take a great amount of power to drive effectively. EPS and Nadion Inversion help with that, and in most situations are just as beneficial as tac buffs. A science captain is a singularly bad fit for a cruiser as he cannot buff his attacks or his power levels, and cannot turn fast enough to use SNB very well.

Those self survivability skills that the engineer has are absolutely essential when you're playing as a main healer. A good enemy team will try to focus you when they believe you have extended all of your healing on team mates, and you're going to need something to fall back on. The alternative is saving more heals for yourself -- which makes you a far worse healer -- or being blown up regularly.

A properly set up eng/cruiser is the most valuable healing asset on your team. Not only that, they can put out sound DPS. Some of the greats (Era, Bieber, Jorfaid, among others) will regularly out-damage escorts. They also have a prime role to play in clearing pets and targetable projectiles. Obviously you aren't going to have the same burst or single target damage as a good escort, but that's not your job.

You guys need to stop being terrible pugs, and learn to play this game in a team. After two years, it's amazing that this stuff isn't obvious to everybody.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
01-23-2012, 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badbeaumont
How is it that you guys are so completely hopeless when you've been playing for two years? The guy who outfitted a cruiser with three DBBs, three single arrays, and two torps and can't figure out why he isn't doing damage is particularly hilarious :p

So far the only poster in this thread that seems to know anything about the game is CaptainHorizon, apart from the silly statement about putting an engineer in a science vessel. (engineers should only ever play cruisers, and there's no point to flying an engineer sv over a sci/sci)

The people who complain that engineers cannot do damage do not understand how power management works, exemplified by the poster who views 125 weapons as a hard cap despite the fact that there are a number of intricacies beyond that point. Eight single beam arrays (if you use any other combination of weapons you are doing it wrong, sorry) take a great amount of power to drive effectively. EPS and Nadion Inversion help with that, and in most situations are just as beneficial as tac buffs. A science captain is a singularly bad fit for a cruiser as he cannot buff his attacks or his power levels, and cannot turn fast enough to use SNB very well.

Those self survivability skills that the engineer has are absolutely essential when you're playing as a main healer. A good enemy team will try to focus you when they believe you have extended all of your healing on team mates, and you're going to need something to fall back on. The alternative is saving more heals for yourself -- which makes you a far worse healer -- or being blown up regularly.

A properly set up eng/cruiser is the most valuable healing asset on your team. Not only that, they can put out sound DPS. Some of the greats (Era, Bieber, Jorfaid, among others) will regularly out-damage escorts. They also have a prime role to play in clearing pets and targetable projectiles. Obviously you aren't going to have the same burst or single target damage as a good escort, but that's not your job.

You guys need to stop being terrible pugs, and learn to play this game in a team. After two years, it's amazing that this stuff isn't obvious to everybody.
Pfft, why focus on the cruiser AFTER he's expended all his heals? He's now useless. Kill off the Sci ship or the Escort while he's recharging. I still haven't met an engineer is a beam cruiser that could touch the new shields.

Ya, FAW with beams is nice for killing off the drone and mine spam. If you're happy with the status quo of being a garbage man, that's fine. Just stop patting yourself on the back for being able to kill puggers. You have some wonderfully opinionated views on cruisers.

If you insist on dumbly smiling at the end scoreboard numbers, I'll leave you to your delusions.
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