Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 71
01-25-2012, 05:52 AM
Honestly, Maco isn't what made Engie cruisers incapable of killing Escorts, this has been the case for over a year now.

Cruisers are there to put pressure on, and that's it. "pressure means damage 1v1!!!!" no it doesn't. Pressure is a funny thing, like everything else it boils down to the economy of actions and the bellcurve. Not having that constant pressure there means, that an Escorts Alphas are much easier to shrug off on a given team. (assuming the team is silly enough to even use an escort in the first place given what 4 sci and an engie cruiser are capable of)

You want to talk about useless? Escorts are the definition of it in team based pvp. Who cares about 500k damage when you can wipe the whole enemy team with 4 sci getting 350k at the end of a given match? Most of which was overkill due to Shield Stripping and buff removal?

Cruisers at least can heal, and keep sci ships etc alive during the worst of Sci God Like Power moments. It's all the Escort can do to even survive the sci barrage with the best heals in the game thrown on it from you guessed it the Engie Cruiser.

Those 4 sci and a damage engie healer will absolutely roll any non similar team loadout each and every time in pvp. When the sci do break down enemy shields, and buffs (and it's not a matter of if or when because it's constant), suddenly the cruisers beams are hitting naked hull which means whoever the sci aren't killing? Is a very dead target.

most of the high end premades have in my opinion in the spirit of fairness, dropped the 4sci and engie routine for 3 sci and a escort. Because matches are unfairly over long before they should be otherwise. Because at least the Escort Can Die, and ironically enough does the least damage.

If you think Escorts are so OP I suggest you fly one for a while. And then go roll a high end sci build. I think you'll find it quite enlightening and you'll be thankful that you have the most durable ship in pvp right now, with the best heals.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 72
01-25-2012, 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
lol, adapt? adapt by having NO cruisers on the team, that's the conclusion to my testing
The MACO shields have increased the need for coordination and SNBs. But I don't think the game has shifted to cruisers being useless.

Obviously the perception of the strength of cruisers and escorts is very different among the players. Maybe if people weren't busy farming STFs we could set up a 5v5 with an escort-heavy team and a cruiser-heavy team and see what the result is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 73
01-25-2012, 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
The MACO shields have increased the need for coordination and SNBs. But I don't think the game has shifted to cruisers being useless.

Obviously the perception of the strength of cruisers and escorts is very different among the players. Maybe if people weren't busy farming STFs we could set up a 5v5 with an escort-heavy team and a cruiser-heavy team and see what the result is.
I think your guild, the Pandas and me know what the results of that would be.

Just for kicks we could even throw the 4 sci 1 healer monster in there too for ultimate face rolling pleasure.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 74
01-25-2012, 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
The MACO shields have increased the need for coordination and SNBs. But I don't think the game has shifted to cruisers being useless.

Obviously the perception of the strength of cruisers and escorts is very different among the players. Maybe if people weren't busy farming STFs we could set up a 5v5 with an escort-heavy team and a cruiser-heavy team and see what the result is.

What SNB removes MACO shields now . Ships running MACOs only need to worry about SNB to strip damage buffs not defenseive buffs since as many have admitted stopped running them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 75
01-25-2012, 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom
The MACO shields have increased the need for coordination and SNBs. But I don't think the game has shifted to cruisers being useless.

Obviously the perception of the strength of cruisers and escorts is very different among the players. Maybe if people weren't busy farming STFs we could set up a 5v5 with an escort-heavy team and a cruiser-heavy team and see what the result is.
Id bet on the Tacs escorts tbh. One cruiser could heal thru the cruiser team's damage.

Guess we won't know till we try. I'll volunteer for the cruiser team if it ever comes up. I'd love to prove myself wrong .

What WOULD be interesting though, is all teams with MACO, then all w/o. I think the results would be interesting.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 76
01-25-2012, 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
What SNB removes MACO shields now . Ships running MACOs only need to worry about SNB to strip damage buffs not defenseive buffs since as many have admitted stopped running them.
Because they don't need buffs to hit the 75% shield resist cap. They're at it already by just equipping the shields
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 77
01-25-2012, 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beary666 View Post
Because they don't need buffs to hit the 75% shield resist cap. They're at it already by just equipping the shields

THat is what I was trying to get at. MACO shields now neuters SNB all the way around. I mean if a SV knows there is little danger to anyone on the team being popped since they all are running MACO then it will be used less because even a scathing alpha is not that difficult to shrug off.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 78
01-25-2012, 11:18 AM
Engineers are Haxcellent
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 79
01-25-2012, 11:42 AM
To all those who complain that their cruiser are not dealing enough damage: what's your raw damage output per second?

(raw = base damage output, not taking into account reductions by the target's shields and hull resists; you need to use a combat log parser (and maybe some manual calculating with the given numbers, depending on the parser) to get that number)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 80
01-25-2012, 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
THat is what I was trying to get at. MACO shields now neuters SNB all the way around. I mean if a SV knows there is little danger to anyone on the team being popped since they all are running MACO then it will be used less because even a scathing alpha is not that difficult to shrug off.
I disagree w/this. From a Sci KDF B'rel side I will wait until i see APO &/or EPTS/EPTE &/or RSP and then use SNB and follow up w/TB & CPB3 or TB & GW3. My captain's shield resistance boost powers w/KHG cap means I don't have to neuter the agressive Tac, but instead strip his/her gtfo skills and trap them. The pita part of Fed Escorts is keeping them in position where their defenses are reduced for an extended time or hitting them w/high alpha in a very short time window when their defenses are down. SNB is very helpful and still is if not moreso very much needed imo.
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