Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Max DPS for STFs
01-24-2012, 11:51 AM
I have a few questions to attempt to squeeze more DPS out of my multi vector escort for STFs. I am running all XII Borg Anti Proton/Quantum weapons and have both Borg Sets XI, Aegis, and Old Borg Sets. Also, please assume that I am maxed out my weapons skills. Thanks in advance for your answers. (I am trying to build a spreadsheet on this because the DPS calculator does not seem to work for me.)

1. Is there a diminishing return rate to stack multiple same damage type consoles? For example, I have 4 Anti proton mag regulars. My very experienced fleet states that only equip 2 because of diminishing returns So I am running 2 Mag Regulators, 1 Prefire Chamber, and a +26 for Quantums. I have read that it is about a 30% diminishing return rate with each additional same console. This would make my fleet correct. What is the formula here for this diminishing returns? Because if there is no diminishing returns I can load up 4 Antiproton Mag Regulators and call it a day.

2. Which is better Dual Heavy Cannons or Dual Cannons. Both have the same DPS so what is best lay out. I have read that 2 Dual Cannons or 3 Dual Heavies are the best due to overlapping cool downs. Right now I am running Dual heavies because they look cool. I am looking for a more scientific approach on which I should load on my ship.

3. Does it make sense to put 2 cannons, a dual beam, and a torpedo up front or all cannons. I have been experimenting on this. The issue with All cannons is the over lapping cool downs on rapid fire III and scatter volley. With a beam (Beam Overload), Cannons (Rapid FIre/Scatter Volley) and Torpedo (High yield III) the bridge officers buffs appear to make up for the less DPS from having the dual beams up front. Is this true?

4. On back, I have turrets, but I am experimenting using 1 torp in the back due the need to escape from the TAC Cube when targeted in Infected elite runs.

5. What should I put in my precious Commander TAC Bridge Officer spot. Cannon Rapid Fire III or Attack pattern Omega III?

6. Which borg set (Omega or MACO) is better for tacs? Or should I just stick with Aegis or the old Borg set.

7. Which torpedo type is best. I am rolling with Mark XII Borg Quantums with a Console. My reason is that plasmas and others are better dps but too slow and get picked off too easily.

8. Can I get any dps out of engineering or science consoles? (I have been using my science LT Commander slots to keep me alive in STFs. I am toying with using gravity well here and or photonic officer to get faster cool downs on my bridge officers.

9. How about DOFFs any way to get some DPS here?

Thanks again for your help. I am looking to get the highest STF TAC DPS in the game. If you think that you are there please share your ship build.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
01-24-2012, 12:18 PM
Probably the best place to find your answers is in the STF Escort build thread:

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=244532
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
01-24-2012, 12:30 PM
To supplement the STF Escort thread:

1. There is no diminishing return for damage type tactical consoles.

2. DHCs have an inherit +10% critical severity and have a higher damage per volley (and slower firing rate), so if you're using 2-3+ of them, they tend to not drain your weapons energy level as much as DCs, and thus have higher DPS.

3. All cannons fore with 3 turrets aft with AOE energy powers might drain your energy levels to a point that they aren't firing at top levels frequently. Adding a torp is feasible, or even two, especially if you use a Projectile Weapons DOff (or 3) that reduces the recharge torpedo time. Your choice/availability of abilities will dictate this as well (like 2x Full Spread 2/3 + 2 torpedo launchers + 3 Projectile DOffs = (AOE!) DPS, but it's not for everyone/situation).

4. If you put anything but turrets aft, then your attack run tactics need to have your back to the enemy frequently enough to make up for the loss in fore DPS. Sounds like you do in some situations, so worth a try.

5. APO3 is popular as it more benefits than just CRF/SV3 in terms of survivability and non-cannon damage.

6. For 15-20 EDCs, I like the Borg set for STFs, the recent changes do "resist" the Borg well, and if you're dead, your DPS is basically zero (strategic use of warp core breaches not withstanding). I don't have much experience with the other sets.

7. I'd stick with quantums, more reliable than the targetable ones.

8. A +weapons energy engineering console can improve DPS but only by like 1-2%. EPS flow regulator supposedly helps recover energy levels from a BO more quickly. Indirectly, anything that keeps you alive is good for DPS. Borg Assimilated Module is a no-brainer even without using the rest of the Borg set.

9. Projectile DOffs like I said earlier is no-brainer especially with quantums/photons. I'm sure there are others, but I can't think of them at the moment.

Consider recording your mission combat logs and use the Parser to analyze different layouts/tactics. I found it useful when moving from a Eng Assault Cruiser Beam Boat to Eng Excelsior Cruiser Cannon/Torp build.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
01-24-2012, 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vipermjd View Post
I have a few questions to attempt to squeeze more DPS out of my multi vector escort for STFs. I am running all XII Borg Anti Proton/Quantum weapons and have both Borg Sets XI, Aegis, and Old Borg Sets. Also, please assume that I am maxed out my weapons skills. Thanks in advance for your answers. (I am trying to build a spreadsheet on this because the DPS calculator does not seem to work for me.)

1. Is there a diminishing return rate to stack multiple same damage type consoles? For example, I have 4 Anti proton mag regulars. My very experienced fleet states that only equip 2 because of diminishing returns So I am running 2 Mag Regulators, 1 Prefire Chamber, and a +26 for Quantums. I have read that it is about a 30% diminishing return rate with each additional same console. This would make my fleet correct. What is the formula here for this diminishing returns? Because if there is no diminishing returns I can load up 4 Antiproton Mag Regulators and call it a day.

2. Which is better Dual Heavy Cannons or Dual Cannons. Both have the same DPS so what is best lay out. I have read that 2 Dual Cannons or 3 Dual Heavies are the best due to overlapping cool downs. Right now I am running Dual heavies because they look cool. I am looking for a more scientific approach on which I should load on my ship.

3. Does it make sense to put 2 cannons, a dual beam, and a torpedo up front or all cannons. I have been experimenting on this. The issue with All cannons is the over lapping cool downs on rapid fire III and scatter volley. With a beam (Beam Overload), Cannons (Rapid FIre/Scatter Volley) and Torpedo (High yield III) the bridge officers buffs appear to make up for the less DPS from having the dual beams up front. Is this true?

4. On back, I have turrets, but I am experimenting using 1 torp in the back due the need to escape from the TAC Cube when targeted in Infected elite runs.

5. What should I put in my precious Commander TAC Bridge Officer spot. Cannon Rapid Fire III or Attack pattern Omega III?

6. Which borg set (Omega or MACO) is better for tacs? Or should I just stick with Aegis or the old Borg set.

7. Which torpedo type is best. I am rolling with Mark XII Borg Quantums with a Console. My reason is that plasmas and others are better dps but too slow and get picked off too easily.

8. Can I get any dps out of engineering or science consoles? (I have been using my science LT Commander slots to keep me alive in STFs. I am toying with using gravity well here and or photonic officer to get faster cool downs on my bridge officers.

9. How about DOFFs any way to get some DPS here?

Thanks again for your help. I am looking to get the highest STF TAC DPS in the game. If you think that you are there please share your ship build.
1, I was under the impression you can stack 4 consoles of the same type

2, I find dual cannons better, they shot so much faster.

3, I run all cannons on the front + 1 torp

4, I run all turrets on the back

5, I use CRFIII

6, Maco

7, I use transphasic

8, Items to help tank + skills to do the same... If you're dying you're not helping anything.

9, 5 x Warp Core Engineer - increases power levels across the board

Note: You also want to hit multiple targets, SV + TS works well for this
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
01-24-2012, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intricated View Post
2. DHCs have an inherit +10% critical severity and have a higher damage per volley (and slower firing rate), so if you're using 2-3+ of them, they tend to not drain your weapons energy level as much as DCs, and thus have higher DPS.
Is the inherent crit bonus actually true? I do not recall seeing this in-game but am not sure. However, the STO Wiki makes no mention of the inherent +10% crit severity bonus. Maybe you're confusing that with the AP weapon type which provides a 10% crit severity bonus as it's special energy type property.

Regarding the cooldown, does it not drain more power per attack though? Do the cooldowns work such that you have effectively more energy with DHC than DC, even though the stated DPS is the same?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
01-24-2012, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormnnorm
Is the inherent crit bonus actually true? I do not recall seeing this in-game but am not sure. However, the STO Wiki makes no mention of the inherent +10% crit severity bonus. Maybe you're confusing that with the AP weapon type which provides a 10% crit severity bonus as it's special energy type property.

Regarding the cooldown, does it not drain more power per attack though? Do the cooldowns work such that you have effectively more energy with DHC than DC, even though the stated DPS is the same?
I'll give the DHC a trying.

My setup melts borg pretty fast tho.

DHC = +30 Crit severity
DC - +20 Crit Severity
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
01-24-2012, 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vipermjd View Post
I have a few questions to attempt to squeeze more DPS out of my multi vector escort for STFs. I am running all XII Borg Anti Proton/Quantum weapons and have both Borg Sets XI, Aegis, and Old Borg Sets. Also, please assume that I am maxed out my weapons skills. Thanks in advance for your answers. (I am trying to build a spreadsheet on this because the DPS calculator does not seem to work for me.)

1. Is there a diminishing return rate to stack multiple same damage type consoles? For example, I have 4 Anti proton mag regulars. My very experienced fleet states that only equip 2 because of diminishing returns So I am running 2 Mag Regulators, 1 Prefire Chamber, and a +26 for Quantums. I have read that it is about a 30% diminishing return rate with each additional same console. This would make my fleet correct. What is the formula here for this diminishing returns? Because if there is no diminishing returns I can load up 4 Antiproton Mag Regulators and call it a day.

No diminishing returns as you describe. It's a "linear vs exponential" thing. See here for details.
http://theenginescannaetakeit.wordpr...shing-returns/


2. Which is better Dual Heavy Cannons or Dual Cannons. Both have the same DPS so what is best lay out. I have read that 2 Dual Cannons or 3 Dual Heavies are the best due to overlapping cool downs. Right now I am running Dual heavies because they look cool. I am looking for a more scientific approach on which I should load on my ship.

DHC are generally considered better because of the way they cycle through their firing rate.

3. Does it make sense to put 2 cannons, a dual beam, and a torpedo up front or all cannons. I have been experimenting on this. The issue with All cannons is the over lapping cool downs on rapid fire III and scatter volley. With a beam (Beam Overload), Cannons (Rapid FIre/Scatter Volley) and Torpedo (High yield III) the bridge officers buffs appear to make up for the less DPS from having the dual beams up front. Is this true?

Due to the way they fire, it won't do any good to have more than 3 DHC up front. A lot of people use a dual beam up front or a torp. (I use a torp).

4. On back, I have turrets, but I am experimenting using 1 torp in the back due the need to escape from the TAC Cube when targeted in Infected elite runs.

Personally, I use this set up of 2 turrets plus a torp. A lot of people just use 3 turrets. Depends on how often you use that rear torpedo.

5. What should I put in my precious Commander TAC Bridge Officer spot. Cannon Rapid Fire III or Attack pattern Omega III?

APO used to be better, but it got nerfed. Better to now use CRF 3 with attack pattern beta.


6. Which borg set (Omega or MACO) is better for tacs? Or should I just stick with Aegis or the old Borg set.

Haven't tried the new sets yet, and they recently got a balance pass.

7. Which torpedo type is best. I am rolling with Mark XII Borg Quantums with a Console. My reason is that plasmas and others are better dps but too slow and get picked off too easily.

The "DPS" listed on the torpedo tool tip is if you are firing the torpedo constantly. Photons have higher "DPS" than quantums because they have a shorter cooldown and can fire more frequently. However, If you time your torpedo shots like I do, or if you are using High Yield/Spread abilities, choose the type that has the highest listed damage (not DPS), and in most cases, this would be Quantums. Typical way I use them is to use my DHC to burn down the shields. When enemy shields get down to ~50%, I launch HYT or quantum spread. Shields are 0% by the time the torps hit.

8. Can I get any dps out of engineering or science consoles? (I have been using my science LT Commander slots to keep me alive in STFs. I am toying with using gravity well here and or photonic officer to get faster cool downs on my bridge officers.

Particle generator consoles can help increase the damage your Grav well does.


9. How about DOFFs any way to get some DPS here?

Anything that shortens the cooldown on your attack abilities will help your DPS.

Thanks again for your help. I am looking to get the highest STF TAC DPS in the game. If you think that you are there please share your ship build.
Answers above in yellow.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
01-24-2012, 01:44 PM
There's no diminishing returns for consoles. The link Latinumber provided discusses resistance consoles, for other consoles, like tactical consoles, it's just a flat increase. If you have 100 energy weapon skill, and have three +15 energy weapon consoles, you have 145 energy weapon skill.

(Note that's not the same as weapon power, and doesn't include other bonuses you may have, and is just an example. That probably isn't even exactly the right name.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
01-24-2012, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ainu
There's no diminishing returns for consoles. The link Latinumber provided discusses resistance consoles, for other consoles, like tactical consoles, it's just a flat increase. If you have 100 energy weapon skill, and have three +15 energy weapon consoles, you have 145 energy weapon skill.

(Note that's not the same as weapon power, and doesn't include other bonuses you may have, and is just an example. That probably isn't even exactly the right name.)
I thought the tac consoles were changed with season 5. I believe they now give a percentage increase in damage rather than +skill increase. I think the rare Mk XI's give up to 26% increase in damage for specific energy types. (can't confirm atm as I am not at my regular computer).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
01-24-2012, 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinumbar
I thought the tac consoles were changed with season 5. I believe they now give a percentage increase in damage rather than +skill increase. I think the rare Mk XI's give up to 26% increase in damage for specific energy types. (can't confirm atm as I am not at my regular computer).
Just checked in game, and you're right. I missed that change.
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