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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
01-26-2012, 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kant_Lavar
"DPS is God" may well be true, but I would rather see a game where it's possible, albeit not guaranteed, for someone to be *le gasp!* creative and come up with strategies and tactics to overcome pure DPS. Granted, it's probably a pipe dream, and STO may well never be that game. Doesn't stop me from wishing.
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Yeah, thats pretty well the crux of the issue. I too, would like to see a system of play which rewards creativity over damage... But I don't think we'll find that in STO at this juncture.

All said and done, I don't see much changing for me. My main is a Tactical, and after nearly 9 months in it, I've gotten very comfortable with the Sovereign. It is far from clear to me at this point that the Odyssey can do the same things my Sovereign can (An even split between damage, support and speed) and I suspect I will be staying right where I am until I see what 'reality' has in store for the academics.

Will I get the ship? Absolutely. On every character, and probably characters I'm likely to create this weekend just so I can have more of the suckers(!)

But realistically, for most of the time, I'll probably stick with the Sovereign if only so I am not "one of the sheep."

...In any serious play I'm involved with, be it PVP or Elite STFs... I'll probably do exactly as I am now, and switch out to the trusty fleet escort.

Nothing changes, except that space is filled with more bloated whales.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
01-26-2012, 11:17 PM
I like how people complain that science ships need love when they easily have the most neat little perks..1.3x shield mod, built-in subsystem targeting, built-in sensor analysis..

Yes, escorts need more hulls. An endgame Akira escort/cruiser hybrid would be amazing, or maybe give us the Steamrunner that people have been asking for since the game went live. Surely the Steamrunner would be just as easily modeled as the 2(!) Nebula and Excelsior variants already in the game. Steamrunner as a hybrid Escort/Sci would be awesome.

So there you go.

Tier 5 Akira (Using the Akira's model, plz) Tac/Cruiser hybrid
Tier 3 or 4 Steamrunner Sci/Tac hybrid. Or hell, even BoP-style with 4-5 universal slots, make it the ultimate in flexibility..

They could've made the Rhode Island a hybrid Tac/Sci too, but that didn't happen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
01-27-2012, 02:37 AM
Hm, we got nice shiny new flagship we been waiting for, and its pretty epic, and the OP is complaining there isn't enough escort/sv love. Hm...

Rearrange these words to form a popular and applicable saying...

Pleasing people some no there is.

You old schoolers need to be careful, that your list of 'wants' that aren't implemented yet, don't unbalance the game if/when they are implemented. This is what killed WoW for a lot of hardcore players, myself included. Blizzard lost their direction, started pandering to the fragile wants of the community, changed classes, changed them back, unbalanced them, balanced them again. There comes a point where one final unnecessary brushstroke ruins the entire canvas. Be careful what you wish for.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
01-27-2012, 04:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aashenfox
Hm, we got nice shiny new flagship we been waiting for, and its pretty epic, and the OP is complaining there isn't enough escort/sv love. Hm...

Rearrange these words to form a popular and applicable saying...

Pleasing people some no there is.

You old schoolers need to be careful, that your list of 'wants' that aren't implemented yet, don't unbalance the game if/when they are implemented. This is what killed WoW for a lot of hardcore players, myself included. Blizzard lost their direction, started pandering to the fragile wants of the community, changed classes, changed them back, unbalanced them, balanced them again. There comes a point where one final unnecessary brushstroke ruins the entire canvas. Be careful what you wish for.
yes.. because making games fun for everyone but YOU is bad. we know.


Wow lost its steam because its been around so long and people more or less have done what was to be done. Once they realized WoW was a fancy chat room for them, they bailed and went for FUN games.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
01-27-2012, 04:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by claydermunch View Post
yes.. because making games fun for everyone but YOU is bad. we know.
Huh? Nicholas Cage's hair is a bird.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
01-27-2012, 08:28 AM
Escorts are fine as they are. I have little trouble tanking damage in mine on my sci toon, tac toon and of course me eng toon.

If anything they need to be rebalanced downwards.

As for federation cruisers, the only thing they're good for is tanking, not much else. The universal station on the Odyssey allows for some leeway in making a cruiser more tactical orientated, but even then it's still going to be limited.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
01-27-2012, 11:32 AM
Again, nobody's complaining about the escort performance. It's the hulls. It seems that every new hull that comes out is a cruiser or science ship, while escorts just get a remodel that shares virtually the same stats. Cruiser and Sci got two fantastic looking canon ships (Nebula, a non-canon Nebula, and 2 beautiful Excelsiors) with added capability and a good difference of variety from their tiers (Cloak detect stuff, transwarp, the ships being arguably some of the best at their tier..) and Escorts get a fugly tier 3 skin with a near-useless point-defense system. Yay? Escorts didn't get anything to match the tier 5 Excelsior or Nebula, which is where the tier 5 Akira (using the same model) and a tier 3 Steamrunner would come in handy.

A tier 5 Akira with:

32,000 hull
1.2x shield modifier
4 fore, 3 aft weapons slots
450 crew
Cmdr tac, Lt.Cmdr tac, Lt. Sci, Lt. Cmdr Eng, Lt. Uni spots
3 device slots
4 Tac, 3 Eng, 2 Sci consoles
12 turn
.18 Impulse Modifier
60 Inertia
+15 weapons power

Would be awesome. It'd be a hybrid cruiser/escort. Push come to shove, you could remove the ability for it to carry dual cannons, and it'd be a beam boater's dream ship. It'd turn a little slower then the Heavy Escort, and it has a slightly lower impulse modifier, but it makes up for that with better shielding and a stronger hull then the other escorts at tier 5. The extra engineering capabilities as well as the universal crew slot would also make up for the lack of cannons, while keeping the +15 weapons power and the lean toward the "tactical ship" side of things with the bias toward tactical crew slots and consoles.

For the tier 3 Steamrunner, you could do..

22,000 hull
1.2x shield modifier
3 fore 2 aft weapons slots (Without dual cannons)
350 crew
1 Lt.Cmdr Uni, 2 Lt. Uni, 1 Ens. Uni.
2 tac, 2 Eng, 2 Sci consoles
12 turn
.18 impulse mod
60 inertia
+15 weapons

Again you get a Tactical-leaning beam boat with untold amounts of flexibility with the Bird of Prey-style universal crew slots. It'll be less maneuverable then the tier 3 heavy escorts, but would have better shielding and hull, while still having less shielding and hull then a cruiser and none of the nifty gadgets of a sci hull.

That's what I'd personally like to see anyway. It's not an increase in performance a LOT of escort players are looking for, it's a switch-up in variety. Both Sci and Cruisers have gotten ships (And cruisers get a lot more then anyone..) that mix it up to keep it interesting. Escorts haven't. And it's about time we did.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
01-28-2012, 02:28 AM
Well we can hope to see the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship hit the c-store, or better yet be dropped on players as a freebie(hint-hint devs) (possibly fed eclusive. since the klingons have so much tac love already) so that tac players have more variety. There isn't a lack of ships that could be adopted in to science and tac, it just takes time to develop them for the game, so you know they don't break balance.... Either way the OP needs to stop crying that we got a new cruiser, and figure out how to use it to an advantage... There are some of skills hovering around out there that can make DPS bite the attacking ship right in the butt.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
01-28-2012, 07:31 AM
I suppose I should clarify to be fair.

I don't have any intention of telling anyone how to play the game, build their ship, etc. I will offer advice, constructive criticism, tactical knowledge, etc to help them as best I can, but I will never (even in my own 12th Fleet PvP parties, the people I am most critical of because they represent me as well) cross the line of offering advice, and calling you stupid for not doing something my way.

I will tell you what I do, why I do it, and how it works for me. If it doesn't for you, fine. I may not like it, but you won't hear a word of it from me.

I dare you instead to prove me wrong and build something BETTER than me, because that is what drives innovation, and is how the best PvP builds in the game are created.

"DPS is God" is a relative term however. Rather, I'd go so far as to say "CC is God". After all, if you're locked down (unable to move/act) you're as good as dead, whereas raw DPS you can defend against.

Nothing you can do to stop your death if you can't react to it.

That's one of the reasons my shark tactics are so successful. My enemies can't move and have no time to react to my burst. Nor do they require a premade to be effective (I can PuG and have the same effect on my enemies).

Hell, last night the fleet and I thought it would be incredibly funny if we took all Dreadnoughts into PvP. We ended up against Sad Pandas (one of the better Fed PvP fleets in the game).

Sad Panda's normal tactic, that you can expect them to pull EVERY time you fight them?

Always a premade. 3-4 Gravity Well III's. 5 up to sometimes 10 consecutive Photonic Shockwaves. Multi-shield strips followed closely by Spread III Quantums.

Usually an instant wipe for the opposing party who isn't expecting to fight it beforehand.

Our survivability pushed past that first wave however, and after that, there wasn't a damn thing they could do to that many Lances.

We won 15-1. Match lasted all of 9 minutes.

Moral of the story, and one I've tried to make for a very, VERY long time:

The ship does NOT win the fight. The captain/team does.


We took the most laughable PvP ship in the game by most standards, took not 1, not 2... but a whole group of them. Took on one of the game's best and most notoriously cheap groups.

We won. We won so lopsidedly that I couldn't stop laughing for a good hour.

It was great fun and a nice joke.

I thought I had it recorded too... it was going to be my next PvP ROFL video, but my FRAPS messed up mid-match and I only got segments of it, so I had to scrap it.

Aw well... next time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
01-28-2012, 07:37 AM
Didnt realise 12th resorted to calling other fleets "cheap"

Quote:
Always a premade. 3-4 Gravity Well III's. 5 up to sometimes 10 consecutive Photonic Shockwaves. Multi-shield strips followed closely by Spread III Quantums.
What?
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