Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
01-31-2012, 07:19 AM
I have to agree with the above post, science ships can be very powerful in the right hands...
I choose to fly them because of their adaptability. What other vessel can adapt so well to whatever you may be fighting and come out the winner no matter what.

Also, as far as STF's go...a "true" science player on your team can change the outcome from fail to win...


*This is all coming from a 2 year science player veteran...so take it as you will...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
01-31-2012, 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAlaska
I have to agree with the above post, science ships can be very powerful in the right hands...
I choose to fly them because of their adaptability. What other vessel can adapt so well to whatever you may be fighting and come out the winner no matter what.

Also, as far as STF's go...a "true" science player on your team can change the outcome from fail to win...


*This is all coming from a 2 year science player veteran...so take it as you will...
all that AND be usefull while using MES!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
02-04-2012, 08:18 PM
While some of you have given some semi useful info for the most part all I've seen in this thread is the concept that science vessels can pwn if you use the two magic abilities no one names at the proper time, which is bull. In PvP they are good, in an organized group they are good, in SOLO PvE or when trying to CARRY an stf team to victory because they cannot dps there way out of a wet paper bag, they are NOT good. Most of the tips given here would increase my dps by about 5-10% max at the cost of alot of versatility, I need it doubled. Fortunately I have found two builds that are working for me, although if I used escorts/cruisers they would probably be alot stronger.

Recon Sci Vessel (odessy would likely work better)
Front: 3 Plasma Torp
Aft: 1 Beam Array, 1 Plasma Mine, 1 Tri Cobalt
Consoles: 2 Armor, /Shield Consoles, 3x AmbiPlasma
Rest: Retro Borg, its up to you really.

Important Boff Abilities
Tac: Tac Team, Atk Pattern Beta
Sci: Gravity Well, Rift
Doffs: Projectile

Tactics: Fire torps, lay minefield in enemy path, use abilities as necessary.
Why it works: Torps deal 1k radiation from borg proc, 1,772 plasma while tac team is up in addition to the standard 4k+ kinetic. Projectile Doffs also help out big time. You can vary between full Aux when you want to use abilities and full shield when tanking.

Vulcan D'Kyr Daily (would work better as a nebula, excel does work better)
Front: 1 Plasma Torp, 2x Cannon
Aft: 3 Turret
Consoles: 2x Plasma Manifold, 1 EPS / Shield Crap & Universals / 2x Energy Distribution Manifolds
Omega Set

Important Boff Abilities
Tac: Tac Team I, Rapid Fire I
Sci: Tractor Beam I
Eng: DEM I & II

Tactics: Pop buffs, close range, let it die. I pack a gravity well to keep the groups of 3 infront, tractor for bigs.
Why it works: The pokes from the Omega set to shields & DEM really add up and my measily two tac consoles effect everything.
Nebula Mod: Grab a second tac team (it effects DEM) and high yield or spread.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
02-05-2012, 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreael
While some of you have given some semi useful info for the most part all I've seen in this thread is the concept that science vessels can pwn if you use the two magic abilities no one names at the proper time, which is bull. In PvP they are good, in an organized group they are good, in SOLO PvE or when trying to CARRY an stf team to victory because they cannot dps there way out of a wet paper bag, they are NOT good. Most of the tips given here would increase my dps by about 5-10% max at the cost of alot of versatility, I need it doubled. Fortunately I have found two builds that are working for me, although if I used escorts/cruisers they would probably be alot stronger.
Science ships are good regardless of whether they're in a group or how good that group is. If you're running an Elite STF then you can be in an Escort and you still aren't carrying an entire group to victory, they're a team effort and whether the Science ship can DPS or not is irrelevant because none of the Space STFs are being completed quickly in a bad group if there's only one who knows or cares what they're doing.
TBH if there's one ship that'll get a bad PuG through a Space STF quickly it's a well built and flown Science ship set up for power drains and holds; the Borg (and any other NPCs) are easy to deal with when sat in a stream of Warp Plasma with no shields or weapons.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
02-05-2012, 07:11 PM
i am curious about why there is only 1 Vice Admiral science vessel, and it's a retro fit of one of the less ugly (but still pretty terrible looking) SV's. Why can't we have a new one?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
02-05-2012, 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoshimura
i am curious about why there is only 1 Vice Admiral science vessel, and it's a retro fit of one of the less ugly (but still pretty terrible looking) SV's. Why can't we have a new one?
There's only 1 VA ship of each type, and they're all Refits of T4 ships. Every other ship in the game is just a standard T5/Admiral ship. Science currently has 5 T5 ship choices: the 2 stocks, the Refit, the D'Kyr, and the Nebula. Cruisers also have 5 T5 ships with the 2 stocks, Refit, Excelsior, and now Odyssey. Escorts only have 3 T5 choices.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
02-05-2012, 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Militis View Post
Science ships are good regardless of whether they're in a group or how good that group is. If you're running an Elite STF then you can be in an Escort and you still aren't carrying an entire group to victory, they're a team effort and whether the Science ship can DPS or not is irrelevant because none of the Space STFs are being completed quickly in a bad group if there's only one who knows or cares what they're doing.
TBH if there's one ship that'll get a bad PuG through a Space STF quickly it's a well built and flown Science ship set up for power drains and holds; the Borg (and any other NPCs) are easy to deal with when sat in a stream of Warp Plasma with no shields or weapons.
Not talking about elite STFs they are a nightmare in Pugs, just normals. And no, your power drain is not going to kill the nanite probes any faster. The escort doing more damage than the other 4 science ships combined on the team WILL. The attack pattern beta 3 the escort used WILL. Your power drain and hold do nothing to help if there is no one to deal damage and KILL the borg. And if you played any space stfs this weekend in pugs you would know there are plenty of people that need carried. Ran a KA where someone couldn't even kill the two probes before they made it to the gate. This is fine, it doesn't bother me anymore as I can pick up the slack with my new build. And my cruiser and escort captains never had a problem picking up the slack.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreael
While some of you have given some semi useful info for the most part all I've seen in this thread is the concept that science vessels can pwn if you use the two magic abilities no one names at the proper time, which is bull. In PvP they are good, in an organized group they are good, in SOLO PvE or when trying to CARRY an stf team to victory because they cannot dps there way out of a wet paper bag, they are NOT good. Most of the tips given here would increase my dps by about 5-10% max at the cost of alot of versatility, I need it doubled. Fortunately I have found two builds that are working for me, although if I used escorts/cruisers they would probably be alot stronger.

Recon Sci Vessel (odessy would likely work better)
Front: 3 Plasma Torp
Aft: 1 Beam Array, 1 Plasma Mine, 1 Tri Cobalt
Consoles: 2 Armor, /Shield Consoles, 3x AmbiPlasma
Rest: Retro Borg, its up to you really.

Important Boff Abilities
Tac: Tac Team, Atk Pattern Beta
Sci: Gravity Well, Rift
Doffs: Projectile

Tactics: Fire torps, lay minefield in enemy path, use abilities as necessary.
Why it works: Torps deal 1k radiation from borg proc, 1,772 plasma while tac team is up in addition to the standard 4k+ kinetic. Projectile Doffs also help out big time. You can vary between full Aux when you want to use abilities and full shield when tanking.

Vulcan D'Kyr Daily (would work better as a nebula, excel does work better)
Front: 1 Plasma Torp, 2x Cannon
Aft: 3 Turret
Consoles: 2x Plasma Manifold, 1 EPS / Shield Crap & Universals / 2x Energy Distribution Manifolds
Omega Set

Important Boff Abilities
Tac: Tac Team I, Rapid Fire I
Sci: Tractor Beam I
Eng: DEM I & II

Tactics: Pop buffs, close range, let it die. I pack a gravity well to keep the groups of 3 infront, tractor for bigs.
Why it works: The pokes from the Omega set to shields & DEM really add up and my measily two tac consoles effect everything.
Nebula Mod: Grab a second tac team (it effects DEM) and high yield or spread.
Respectfully sir, you have no idea what you're talking about. You have to keep in mind that Sci ships can just as easily be piloted by bad captains the same as an escort or cruiser can. The problem is, like you, not many people can get their minds around how to build a Sci that is actually decent. That's a challenge for most players especially those that think that DPS can only come in one form. Those people often translate that thinking into a Sci ship and wind up getting it totally wrong. There isn't an issue with Sci ships. It's the people who utilize very bad builds who are trying to Captain them and fail miserably. I'll be honest, I wouldn't want you on an elite STF run in either of those builds posted.

To reiterate, there is a problem with underwhelming players trying to accomplish things above their skill level and/or the terrible builds they are using. It takes more practice to get the Sci right than any other class. Don't expect to be an expert right away and don't hate the ship, because you are putting the blame on the wrong thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreael
Not talking about elite STFs they are a nightmare in Pugs, just normals. And no, your power drain is not going to kill the nanite probes any faster. The escort doing more damage than the other 4 science ships combined on the team WILL. The attack pattern beta 3 the escort used WILL. Your power drain and hold do nothing to help if there is no one to deal damage and KILL the borg. And if you played any space stfs this weekend in pugs you would know there are plenty of people that need carried. Ran a KA where someone couldn't even kill the two probes before they made it to the gate. This is fine, it doesn't bother me anymore as I can pick up the slack with my new build. And my cruiser and escort captains never had a problem picking up the slack.
What??? This is blasphemy! :p

Have you never seen a Sci unleashing High Yield Tricobolt and Plasma torpedo fury to the bare hull of a Tactical cube after it's shields have just dropped because it doesn't have any power? You've obviously never been to an elite Infected run with a Sci ship that spams 2 copies of Tyken's with target subsystems and then unleashes. While the Tac would still have to spend time whittling away the cubes shields a Tyken's spammer can drop them with the pressing of one button.

Normal STF's it shouldn't matter what people bring. Those things are far too easy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
02-06-2012, 12:07 AM
I found using the Long Range Sci Retrofit, with the the following Sci BO abilities to be very useful in STFs:

Cmdr: Gravity Well 3, Gravity Well 1, Tractor Repulser 1, Tractor Beam 1
Lt Cmdr: Tractor Repulser 2, Sci Team 2, Polarize Hull 1
Ens: Hazard Emitters 1

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
02-06-2012, 04:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreael
Not talking about elite STFs they are a nightmare in Pugs, just normals. And no, your power drain is not going to kill the nanite probes any faster.
All an Escort does is kill things, it has no other purpose than to kill things. Science ships aren't DPS monsters usually though because they have other jobs that they're better at; CC and debuffing the target is something that a Science ship can do better than any Cruiser or Escort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreael
The attack pattern beta 3 the escort used WILL. Your power drain and hold do nothing to help if there is no one to deal damage and KILL the borg
AP:Beta 3 is a very nice team skill, but Sensor Scan is more powerful, is an AoE debuff (on up to 15 targets) and doesn't cost me a BOff skill. I do however run an AP:beta 1 on my Nebula, combined with either SS or FoMM (depending on the character I'm playing) it's a nasty debuff that does an impressive job of softening up Borg NPCs for the GW and EWP I'm about to drop on them. If you're talking the Cure then I run GW in place of Tyklen's so on my Tac that'll be something like 1300 HP/ second on GW, 750 HP/ second on EWP1 and then the debuffs. I also run at 119 weapons with a 4 beam broadside and a Tric out back that I use HY with that on the previously debuffed target crits for upwards of 45k. Science isn't all about power drains, they're just particularly effective against NPCs that don't try to clear them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreael
And if you played any space stfs this weekend in pugs you would know there are plenty of people that need carried. Ran a KA where someone couldn't even kill the two probes before they made it to the gate
I did PuG STFs this weekend. IIRC it was something like 7 Infected ground (normal), 3 Infected ground (Elite), 9 infected space (Elite), 5 KA Ground (Elite), 5 KA Space (Normal) and 3 KA space (Elite). With the exception of the Infected ground runs all the Normal STFs had the optionals completed on time and some of the PuGs were terrible. Just using the Elite KA Space as an example of how bad they were myself and a fleet mates Nebula's held off one gate's worth of Probes and destroyed both transformers in the time it took the other three to destroy there's and the gate and they had two Escorts with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreael
And my cruiser and escort captains never had a problem picking up the slack
I can only speak for myself here but I get really nervous when I spawn into an Elite space STF and there's Cruiser or two. I can think of only two or three Cruisers that I'm happy to see because they'll do something constructive like drawing and holding aggro so the Escorts can do there thing, mostly they'll just do no damage and spam heals on themselves whilst watching the Escorts die.
However some of the fastest Elite STFs I've been in have been Sci heavy with the fastest Infected space being something like 10:30 in a PuG with 4 Science ships and a single Escort.

You mention picking up the slack but that's exactly what Science ships are good at doing; they can hang back and debuff a target so heavily that it's effectively sitting and waiting to pop, a Cruiser can't do that and neither can an Escort. Science is a little weak solo but TBH the way they act as a force multiplier in group content more than makes up for that.
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