Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
01-31-2012, 11:39 AM
For me, Star Trek is about going forward, meaning I want to see more series continue on and go forward. It's also why I hate JJ Trek.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
01-31-2012, 11:45 AM
I like Reave's post. It doesn't cover my own opinion, but it's well composed. Kudos. ^_^

However, I think that Enterprise not only suffered from these things, but also from bad timing outside. It aired shortly after the unpopular Voyager (the first ENT episode was aired in the same month Voyager had ended). I think that had quite an impact on the series as well - people were a bit oversaturated, and Voyager has made a lot of mistakes and bad impressions.

I still stand by the point that Enterprise seems better than Voyager. At least its first season is miles better than VOY's. Alas.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
01-31-2012, 12:12 PM
Enterprise was to Star Trek as Highlander 2 was to Highlander.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 24
01-31-2012, 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reave View Post
[indent]Well, at least they're not mangling canon anymore... but this isn't an improvement.
Can you be more specific? Mangling canon? I don't remember saying anything that we DIDN'T have force fields, phase cannons, photon torpedoes, transporters, etc by 2150. I mean, it's not like they had a holodeck.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 25
01-31-2012, 03:53 PM
Alright, so maybe that one little bit of it wasn't completely fair. Other than the NX-01 being named Enterprise - while Enterprise's creators had made it quite clear in Voyager that it should've been named Dauntless, or have another registry number -, the somewhat non-sensical appearance of the Ferengi in season one, the time-travel/holodeck did it happen or didn't it happen bits, and the established line declaring the Earth-Romulan war would be fought with impulse ships and nuclear weapons (which may not necessarily need to mean antimatter based weapons don't exist yet), it generally isn't so much contradicting canon as sidestepping it, isolating the show from what follows, so maybe I should've said it just stopped raising false hopes when season 3 started.

As rather than actually put some effort into it and integrate the events of Enterprise into the franchise's internal history, we get species that are never even alluded to in the other shows, such as the Suliban and Xindi, and of course aliens of the week, playing many of the major parts, while species that did at least occasionally get mentioned in these shows, like the Rigelians, got relegated to weening their kids off methyloxide in the pilot, and then sitting silently at a conference table toward the rear of the season 4.

So yeah, you win that one, technically. Doesn't change my opinion about the show though. Which kind of seems to be what you're setting out to do with the thread. Looking to set up shop as the forum's Trekvangelist, are we?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
01-31-2012, 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reave View Post
Alright, so maybe that one little bit of it wasn't completely fair. Other than the NX-01 being named Enterprise - while Enterprise's creators had made it quite clear in Voyager that it should've been named Dauntless, or have another registry number -, the somewhat non-sensical appearance of the Ferengi in season one, the time-travel/holodeck did it happen or didn't it happen bits, and the established line declaring the Earth-Romulan war would be fought with impulse ships and nuclear weapons (which may not necessarily need to mean antimatter based weapons don't exist yet), it generally isn't so much contradicting canon as sidestepping it, isolating the show from what follows, so maybe I should've said it just stopped raising false hopes when season 3 started.

As rather than actually put some effort into it and integrate the events of Enterprise into the franchise's internal history, we get species that are never even alluded to in the other shows, such as the Suliban and Xindi, and of course aliens of the week, playing many of the major parts, while species that did at least occasionally get mentioned in these shows, like the Rigelians, got relegated to weening their kids off methyloxide in the pilot, and then sitting silently at a conference table toward the rear of the season 4.

So yeah, you win that one, technically. Doesn't change my opinion about the show though. Which kind of seems to be what you're setting out to do with the thread. Looking to set up shop as the forum's Trekvangelist, are we?
It was Lorillians, not Rigelians, that had to wean off of methyloxide. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Lorillian

Also, I'm not familiar with the statement about impulse ships and nuclear weapons for the Romulan war. If it's something that was casually mentioned in TOS you can pretty much throw it out.

What was wrong with having the Ferengi in there? Or even the Borg for that matter? The Borg never said they were the Borg in the episode so it's not like that changed anything.

Not trying to be a Trekvangelist per se, just trying to find out at the core what people didn't like about Enterprise. *Most* of the time the gripes are unfounded in my opinion. Also, I think a lot of people have a hard time with ENT if they don't start at the beginning. I'll admit I didn't get into it until I was able to sit down and start watching it from the beginning. Didn't watch it during the original run (nor did I watch DS9 or VOY during original run for that matter) but once I sat down and watched them back to back I really started getting into it.

At least it isn't TOS. TOS is so hard to watch.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 27
01-31-2012, 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zehra
Can you be more specific? Mangling canon? I don't remember saying anything that we DIDN'T have force fields, phase cannons, photon torpedoes, transporters, etc by 2150. I mean, it's not like they had a holodeck.
Except they did four episodes in. At Warp 5 that race is essentially across the street and obviously a member of the Federation by the 23rd Century. Yet in the 24th Century, the holodeck is a new technological wonder.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
01-31-2012, 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zehra
Also, I'm not familiar with the statement about impulse ships and nuclear weapons for the Romulan war. If it's something that was casually mentioned in TOS you can pretty much throw it out.
Spock mentions that the Earth-Romulan war was fought with "primitive nuclear weapons" in the opener of "Balance of Terror" and later Scotty says the Romulan ship is "powered by pure impulse." Most fans considered this to mean the Romulans didn't have warp drive until their later dealings with the Klingons (whatever that was). That assumption, when you stop to think about it, is pretty silly when you figure that 1) The Romulans were an interstellar power by at least the 22nd century and 2) They fought a fairly extensive interstellar war with Earth.

Quote:
What was wrong with having the Ferengi in there? Or even the Borg for that matter? The Borg never said they were the Borg in the episode so it's not like that changed anything.
The biggest issue with the Ferengi was that, at least according to "The Last Outpost," humans (and the Federation) had only sporatic contact with the Ferengi, and they had *no idea* what one looked like. Besides which, it was pretty stupid of Archer and T'Pol to tell the one Ferengi to steer clear of Earth ships, and yet neglect to ask, "by the way, what is the name of your race?" As for the Borg episode... yeah, lotta things in that episode that just don't gel with the (already) loose Trek canon.

Quote:
At least it isn't TOS. TOS is so hard to watch.
Not that hard; you just got to remember that there is *no* continuity in TOS. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
01-31-2012, 07:02 PM
and the worst of all, there were no Cardassians
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
01-31-2012, 07:07 PM
I recently picked up the series and am near the end of season 1 currently. I have stayed away so far but I figure I would have to turn in my trekkie card if I didn't grin and bear the show.

The bulk of my criticisms have been touched on already. Very weak characterization (I only know two things about Travis Mayweather: He grew up in space and he likes to talk about how he grew up in space), very poor writing from episode to episode, some being unbearably dull (The one where T'Pol gets mind ***** is a good example, because they really seem to enjoy doing that to women on Star Trek). The general canon violations.

But there are a couple more that are really killing it for me. And mind you I know it gets a little better, but still:

Scott Bakula: I love Bakula, I worship Bakula, and he is just not being utilized. He is an actor who excels at comedic timing. Why make him the blandest Captain on the planet? He's like a big old slice of white bread in a jumpsuit, and I know he can be so much more. I mean, you could have cast someone else as the Captain and made him just as bland. Why sign on Bakula and just give him nothing to work with?

The Enterprise or just 'Enterprise'. I have no emotional connection to the ship. It doesn't feel like a home or a haven like the Original or the D or even Voyager. It doesn't feel like a badass like the Defiant. It isn't the little ship that could like Serenity. It isn't a clunky girl who's lagging behind everything but she's the best humanity has like the Battlestar Galactica. It's kind of a lanky teenager of a ship, too tough to be restrained or limit its characters, but too weak to make a difference in the galaxy. I just can't seem to fall in love with her, and its important to do that in Star Trek.

Dear Doctor: Seriously? I thought it was a great episode and then they continue that senseless harping on the prime directive in a situation that doesn't make sense. Its a disease, genetic or not Phlox is a Doctor. It continues to propagate that naive attitude of how the Prime Directive should be applied. That it should be an excuse not to help rather than a way of protecting a culture.
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