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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-02-2012, 06:16 PM
Just throwing this out there:

Have a doff mission window dedicated to pure trade assignments (Or not, but it would be less cluttered this way). In that window, there are always trading assignments for every trading material. Changing sectors/mission cycles changes cost and desired traits rather than availability of the missions.

So in Romulan space you can get A for cheap and B for more expensive, and in Klink space you can get B for cheap and A for expensive. Shoot, make them neat. Have one mission be an arms bazaar to get X, require a trader but give a high crit bonus to sending an explosive expert along for the ride. Stuff like that (or not, I'd be happier with missions have vanilla, never changing text if it would get me away from having to use the replicator).

Ideally the interface would sort by material, even better you'd default to a collapsed menu with the root options being the material when you click them it shows the missions.

-Probes
-Medical supplies
+Antigens
---Trade EC for antigens on blah blah blah
---Trade Weather control systems for antigens at blah blah blah
-Weather control systems


For me, I'd rather send my Doffs out on missions directly than bother with the replicator menu. And I'd way rather fly around in my ship than beam down to a planet to get stuff. But for fairness sake I'd still have the actual vendors be cheaper....maybe. Depends on if you guys think people need another reason to leave their ships and how much it would be used.

I'm a genius.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-02-2012, 06:17 PM
ewww who replicates them, part of the fun is getting them at a deep discount at vendors around the galaxy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-02-2012, 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglcny View Post
ewww who replicates them, part of the fun is getting them at a deep discount at vendors around the galaxy.
It's too much trouble for me. And it isn't like I don't have millions of EC just laying around.

I get that some people like the added steps though, it's nice to have options.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-02-2012, 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglcny View Post
ewww who replicates them, part of the fun is getting them at a deep discount at vendors around the galaxy.
Except that it's no fun anymore. As mentioned in the commodity cheat sheet in my sig, you don't have to fly around to get the cheapest commodities. Just fly out into sector space and find a space trader. They have the cheapest cost.

Used to be that the specialized vendors were cheapest, but a recent patch changed that (makes me wonder if it's because the Klingons don't have specialized vendors)

If they bring back specialized vendors, it would make this more interesting again.

On a side note, the issue I see is that the people who move the slowest need cheap commodities the most (new / low level players) have to do the most traveling with specialized vendors. While vice admirals generally have EC to burn and can replicate to their hearts desire.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-02-2012, 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic
Juggling commodities are trading them is intended to be part of the duty officer system, so I am reluctant to make it so easy to replicate that it might as well just be an automatic EC cost.

That being said, the juggling of commodities should be at least somewhat interesting, so I am open to ideas to make the juggling of them more rewarding and/or more interesting.
Maybe if in the Cargo Bay we had a 1hr mission that doesn't reward Exp (might be a hard sell) to send a duty officer to starbase/planet to get the required commodities for that locations set price. As I think the main reason for people not wanting to do this themselves as they have no reason aside from this to go to these locations and don't want to waste the time.

A setup like this would get rid of the "wasted time" and allow them to do something else while waiting for the Doff to return. Also the reason I suggest a 1 hour time frame is to make it so that it isn't an instantly available option but still within the sectors update window. I would also say they need to unlock the locations by going there an buying something at least once. That way it requires a bit of work on the players side to get the best deals.

Another option, which would be harder to implement but likely more agreeable to the player base would be having the time fluctuate based on the distance the Doff must travel from the sector they are currently in. This way you can decide if the time increase is worth the discount from the commodity vendor your wanting if it is far away.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-02-2012, 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeroscifer View Post
Maybe if in the Cargo Bay we had a 1hr mission that doesn't reward Exp (might be a hard sell) to send a duty officer to starbase/planet to get the required commodities for that locations set price. As I think the main reason for people not wanting to do this themselves as they have no reason aside from this to go to these locations and don't want to waste the time.

A setup like this would get rid of the "wasted time" and allow them to do something else while waiting for the Doff to return. Also the reason I suggest a 1 hour time frame is to make it so that it isn't an instantly available option but still within the sectors update window. I would also say they need to unlock the locations by going there an buying something at least once. That way it requires a bit of work on the players side to get the best deals.

Another option, which would be harder to implement but likely more agreeable to the player base would be having the time fluctuate based on the distance the Doff must travel from the sector they are currently in. This way you can decide if the time increase is worth the discount from the commodity vendor your wanting if it is far away.
That's more or less what I was suggesting above. Even stripped down of any flavor stuff like you suggest I'd still count it as more enjoyable than what we have now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-02-2012, 07:02 PM
To be perfectly blunt, the cost of commodities is such a tiny, tiny pittance to anyone with even meagre resources beyond level ~20 or so that it becomes a meaningless, easily-ignored 'minigame.' Even if they were valuable (They're not. At all.), they take up bag space. Make a commodities tab separate from the rest of the inventory and then I m ight, maybe keep stocks around and do the 'trade for stuff' missions rather than just shrugging and spending 0.2% of my current credit total to make some icons briefly appear in my bag on demand.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-02-2012, 07:13 PM
I wouldn't mind juggling commodities if we, A, couldn't replicate them (because then it's just needless busy work) and B, if the cargo bay actually did what it was proposed to do- ie: act as an additional, commodity only bank that everything that gave you commodities would automatically deposit it into.


Moreover, except at very low levels, any given character has enough EC on hand at any given time to replicate any commodity he needs on the spot. There's not such a variance in prices that he saves any significant amount of resources by flying around for the cheapest vendors.




So anyways, yeah: You already can just replicate commodities. It's annoying to do so because you have to open the inventory window, hit the replicator button, scroll all the crap way down, select the one you want, and buy a crapload, have them drop in your inventory (the cargo bay shows all the stuff you have, but since missions already know how much they require and tell you if you're missing it... the cargo bay doesn't accomplish anything of value)


Having a little integrated commodity replicator switch would really cut down on that busy work- although as you mention there might as well just be an EC cost.






The question is how to fix that. Well, since we already *can* replicate them, uh... your 'envisioned' way it should be? It's already broken. And if we were to take away the ability to replicate commodities... it'd be bad.


So um, suggestions.



1. Make the Cargo Bay do what it was supposed to do: ie: Make it an additional bank/inventory that only accepts commodities. Maybe move all commodities to the cargo bay and make them go there from now on. Might be too much work, but it'd give the thing an actual function.


2. Give every commodity vendor a special doff assignment that sells their 'cheap' commodities at their rates for a success, and better for a critical hit. Stick their name in the title and have these missions only show up in the zones they're in. But make them show up fairly commonly.

Now going around for those commodities has somewhat tangible rewards.

3. Create "Bulk Purchase" Doff missions for higher level (ie: admiral) characters. These would replace normal 'trade X for Y' missions (you could use the tech that hides higher level missions from lower level chars, but flip it around)- these missions would be "trade X*10 for Y*10 or whatever- they'd be more expensive, but also let you get actually numerically meaningful numbers for playing the system. And with a working cargo bay, you could hang on to them.

Rather than getting five or seven of an item, and *still* having to replicate the rest, or fly around to each vendor and buy ten stacks of their cheap product until you have everything.


4. (requires working cargo bay as an additional/separate storage for commodities, and maybe some new tech):

Have commodity vendors and doff missions drop them in your cargo bay. Have replicators create 'replicated' versions, which have a dinky icon or something, and are tracked separately. You can use replicated commodities on doff missions, but they lower the chance of success/critical similar to having bad traits. You can't mix replicated commodities with non-replicated ones because that'd be too server annoying I think.



5. Turn the 'Cargo Bay' into a 'Trade and Cargo Manifest' tab, have it handle the 'cargo bay' stuff as an inventory dump *and* put the replicator menu on the tab. So that people don't have to bounce through a bunch of different menus and do a bunch of scrolling to replicate stuff.

So like cargo on the left, in the middle replicatable stuff, and on the right, commodity replication.



6. Perhaps a better way to do #2: Make your cargo/trade menu as per #5, but have a "Local Vendors" interface that lists in a drop down branching menu all the vendors in the instance you're in and lets you buy from the menu. Maybe have it operable from orbit (you'd need to copy the vendors into the space instance, but that's easy peasy).

Yeah, it'd mean less people running out to Erehwon, Risa, since they can just orbit- but ask yourself: How much busy-work do you want your players to have to do before they can enjoy the game?


You could probably either just point the vendor menus directly to the trade tab, or make some sort of 0 cooldown 0 time 0 doff required doff mission that pops up in that window that'd be instance based like what I suggested for #2. Then people could 'trade' for commodities and you'd be able to give them other stuff, since the interface is like a mission/assignment.



7. Have trade missions give people trade buffs, which work like the ferengi buffs (and stack with them, and have a certain cap) The more trade someone does, the better prices they get. Could also affect trade missions by giving them extra critical, although I dunno how you'd handle that. Autoslot an invisible doff maybe?






Okay, so after writing all those down, I think number 4 is probably the most easily implemented and likely to be accepted with the minimum of grouching.


I'd say that 'replicated commodities' would instead not decrease success/critical success, but rather increase chance of disaster. On commodity requiring missions with no chance of disaster (I can't think of any) it would add a chance.


This would be an acceptable middle ground, I think, since it would reward people who play the system and go around to get 'real' commodities, but people who don't have the time or desire for that can just replicate on the spot. You could then safely add a little 'replicator' thing to the assignment planning menu to let people take that route.

Or they could go into the old menu and replicate it that way (but they'd still get 'replicated commodity'. The reason for this legacy bit rahter than moving commods entirely to the doff window is of course that people still do 'aid the planet' missions or the like. No really, they do.


So yeah.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19 Greatest suggestion
02-02-2012, 07:48 PM
The greatest suggestion I could possibly come up with it Having a dedicated inventory so it wont take up so much space. The cargo bay is what shows where all your commodities are so why not make that the primary place to store it all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-02-2012, 07:58 PM
some simple things to do would be add a drop down filter to the replicator window like crafting so that we can show just the commodities for instance.

Add a button on the doff commondities screen so we can get to the replicator from there.
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