Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanics
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-04-2012, 10:58 AM
The actual numbers are generally irrelevant because they are too theoretical to matter. Activation times for every power takes about 1s in which time no other power can be activated, which means for long chains of powers, you may only do maximum DPS for a few seconds at best. Getting weapons to all fire at once is sometimes hit or miss as well. Even with autofire I end up spamming the spacebar to get stuff shooting that should be shooting but isn't.

Then you add in firing arcs, misses, power drain, death or defensive maneuvers, etc, and you should realize combat in STO will never reach ideal theoretical values, ever.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-04-2012, 11:37 AM
In any case, I really would like to know the exact figures for DPS that one can reach with and without skill influence. No one has ever done that? Really?

I mean, there are so many firm opinions in this subforum, and they cannot be backed up by numbers?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-04-2012, 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo
Well, let's do the math:

A mark XII Dual Cannon deals 256 DPS. An escort or a cruiser will have 4 slots firing forward, so that is 1024 DPS base, with skills and abilties adding their lot. (But I am too new to STO to know exactly what would be the best combination). Let us say the ship in question also has 4 Mk XII Antiproton turrets aft, for 4*132=528 DPS.

That is a total of 1552 DPS against a single target that is unfortunate enough to be directly in front of our damage dealer.

By comparison, a cruiser firing a broadside with 8 Mk XII Beam arrays deals 176*8=1408 DPS. Base damage, again.

What multipliers can be applied to those?

You'll need to factor in critical hits, and things like attack pattern alpha which can increase critical hits while they're up.

Then you would also have to compare BOFF abilities like cannon rapid fire and cannon scatter volley (which can provide cycles of higher sustained DPS or burst DPS) vs. Beam Overload (which is a single high spike that only affects one of your beam arrays) and Fire At Will (which is a totally random scatter of your beams that you can't really focus on any 1 target).

Critical hits + cycling BOFF abilities are probably where you will see Cannons + Turrets pull ahead from Beams with regards to sustained DPS or at least cycles of sustained DPS.

An escort with its high manueverability can also consistently and repeatedly make use of BOFF powered quantum torpedos, capitalizing on downed shield facings (even when there is only a small window of opportunity).


I wish you luck figuring all of it out, there are so many variables that its going to be very challenging.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-04-2012, 06:39 PM
Don't forget the funky accuracy : defense effect on DPS as well

We don't even know what the bonus is from half the skills for crying out loud, or if they even do anything at all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-05-2012, 12:10 AM
As it seems, over in the Federation Shipyard subforum, there is something to be learned about the subject. See me there, reading.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-05-2012, 02:51 AM
This is the STF Escort build thread.

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=244532

It's 31 pages long and counting but it's an interesting discussion. AFAIK it's the most comprehensive thread on how to stay alive and do a ton of damage. The build I have is based on this discussion. I'm an engineer in an escort and according to the combat parser I can count on doing about 2000 DPS with spikes just over 2400.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-06-2012, 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo
In any case, I really would like to know the exact figures for DPS that one can reach with and without skill influence. No one has ever done that? Really?

I mean, there are so many firm opinions in this subforum, and they cannot be backed up by numbers?
You haven't provided enough information. We need to know what you're applying the dps to. Is it a massive HP STF structure, another player, a Tac Cube, etc? A shield stripping build can apply a lot of dps to shields, but it does no good to a High HP structure. Torps can provide a large burst, but not so much if shields are up. +Crit Damage Proc Weapons would do great damage to a disabled target sitting still w/-15 defense, but most often stuff is moving and has a high defensive rating.

For example for shield stripping gear, right now not much will beat the dps of Theta radiation and no one knows for sure how it even works.

I've seen the Bio Neuro Torp list as ~30K base damage when I'm cloaked w/KHG partial, consoles, and cloaked. But, you also get it's AP turret whose damage is based on the shooters weapon power. This can be fire from 15KM away w/approx 1500 damage/volley. It will shoot at random things along the way, are there random things for it to shoot in your hypothetical?

Target subsystem shields may drop a persons shields in 1 hit, that's potentionally 45-50k. Same w/polaron proc and it may have the bonus of shutting down engines making the targets defense -15%. Photonic Fleet may summon a capital ship for the Feds. Fleet support could summon a carrier for the KDF.

Or are you just talking about guns?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-07-2012, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo
In any case, I really would like to know the exact figures for DPS that one can reach with and without skill influence. No one has ever done that? Really?

I mean, there are so many firm opinions in this subforum, and they cannot be backed up by numbers?
You ask the impossible, since there is no damage meter or combat log parser that I know of.

Also, as you may or may not know, even in games such as WoW where dps is absolutely quantifiable, it is measured using simulators against a target of fixed DR, fixed health and of a certain level (to account for hit caps), and over a very long period of time (1000 hours of simulation is considered a short time to get accurate numbers due to random procs, etc. There is no test dummy in STO either to even make your own data in excel from a combat log, and even if there was, the data of exactly what affects whatwhat and even some of the multipliers of certain abilities have not been released to the community. EDIT: However, I just remembered someone mentioning something about asteroids that lived long enough to get some numbers, might be worth a look.

Honestly, you are not going to get the 'numbers' you are looking for here. It depends on too many things.

PS. The 'over 9000...' comment is a WoW joke. People say it when someone asks something that is not quantifiable (or at least, not easily) and it refers to achievement points, not dps. It's just an MMO in-joke.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-07-2012, 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo
In any case, I really would like to know the exact figures for DPS that one can reach with and without skill influence. No one has ever done that? Really?

I mean, there are so many firm opinions in this subforum, and they cannot be backed up by numbers?
This is because it's very, very difficult to calculate the DPS of a cannon barrage, due to the way weapon power, gun power drain and cannon cooldowns interact. For example, a Dual Heavy Cannon drains 12 power per shot, but only during it's firing cycle, after which the 2 second cooldown (More like 1 second, as post-firing cycle only) doesn't drain power. Theoretically, if you manually stagger-fired your DHCs by putting them on your hotbar and rolling you fingers over 1-2-3-4, you'd do more damage than setting them to autofire. But only barely.

At 50 WP, your guns do their rated damage, double that at 100 and slightly more than double at 125. Weapon power caps at 125 but not really (It goes up to 150 I believe when calculating drain effects, or it did a long time back and I'm not sure now, but only 'counts-as' 125)

Firing say, eight guns, being 4 DHCs and 4 Turrets, is a power drain of 80P, assuming you're firing at 100 weapon power this is actually doing less than the weapons rated damage on their tooltip... (20P being less than half of fifty) But only sort of, because technically the first gun to cycle fires at 100 and then cascades down and bounces back as it goes into recycle. Since DHCs and Turrets have disparate cooldowns and don't fire at the same time, it's impossible to tell what your weapon power is at any given moment, but it's somewhere between 125 and 60 normally if you run a slightly more conservative setup and max weapon power.

It requires a lot of eyeballing. I could probably do the math for you later today, but it'll take awhile.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-07-2012, 12:27 PM
Heavy Cannon Storytime, with NovaFury and friends~

Alright, I'll give it a shot. Because I happen to fly a Vor'cha-R and am a tactical commander, and think my burst alpha is pretty awesome, we'll use that as our theoretical ship. We'll assume it's fitted with all energy weapons, because torpedos are notoriously hard to calculate and very situational, as in PVP particularly any shield strength at all (Like reallocation, or frantically spamming EPTS1) will render them ineffective, as torpedoes do 10% damage to shields. So it's got 4 white MkXII disruptor DHCs, and 4x white mkXII disruptor turrets. This is mainly because I cannot find the stats for non-whites on the wiki, and boni vary, nor can I log in right now. We'll assume we're firing at a relatively common, slow moving target that has difficulty maneuvering, like a galaxy class cruiser, within optimal range. Perhaps I decloaked at 3km, or something. It has defense, but not a lot, so my shots should do close to maximum damage. I may miss once or twice, but I'll crit once or twice too and it'll even out.

*A little balloon replica of a Vor'cha and Galaxy pop into existance, along with the klingon battle theme*

Now, I'm probably running 100 weapon power, with +15 from my ship type, 5 from the assmiliated console and another 5 from weapon performance. That's a nice 125 and it's as high as power goes. Our weapons cascade top to bottom, left to right, at power levels 125, 113, 101, 89, 81, 73, 65, 57, because they run 12/12/12/12/8/8/8/8. Assuming rated DPSes of 256 (DHC) and 132 (Turret), our shots look like...

640
578
512
455

203
182
161
138

=

2968

*The little balloon vor'cha fires poorly animated green bolts at the balloon galaxy, as people in the background chirp "Pew, pew!"*

That's a nice, flat number, not counting resistances or buffs. But wait? Who decloaks without cannon rapid fire 1, attack pattern alpha 3, go down fighting 3 (For it's small flat damage buff even at no hull damage), and tactical fleet with emergency power to weapons? To be honest, a lot of people do, but usually I use at least one or two of these buffs. For this experiment, we'll use them all, though.

(Caveat: A lot of Raptor pilots get ansty when I claim a Battlecruiser can hit as hard as they can, and they probably have good reason to do so. To be fair, the only real difference an escort has compared to a cruiser is more tactical BoFF positions, and one less gun. Since so few tactical skills really effect cannons agaisnt one target (Rapid fire, and... APO), the benefit of being an escort isn't as large as it seems. You maneuver better, though. CRF 1 is 40%, and CRF 3 is 60% as far as I'm aware, but nobody sane would run CRF3 instead of APO3, so that leaves them with maybe 40% more damage and down a turret.)

CRF 1 is 40%, APA3 is 60%, GDF3 at 100% hull is, as far as I remember unless it's changed, 40%, Tactical Fleet 1 another 22% and Emergency power to weapons, despite not giving us any bonus to weapon power cause we maxed that like any good klingon, at level 1 is another 10%. Stacking multiplicatively, this is a 172% damage bonus, and a sundry bonus from skills and consoles I will assume is negated by hull resists and hull resist consoles.

Did I mention we're shooting at hull? I should mention that. This guy probably full impulsed into six borg cubes and got his shields stripped off in Ker'rat. Happens all the time and people seriously wonder why they get shot at.

*An efficient saurian sock puppet pops over my shoulder, and shouts "Rear shields failing!"*

2968x1.72 is 5104DPS, which can be sustained for at least 10 seconds. Failing a timely use of tactical team or EPTS, RSP (that doesn't get sub-nuked, but I'm not a science officer), this'll sink most ships. Like our target.

*The galaxy effigy disappears with a loud, snapping 'Pop!' accompanied by a chorus of piratey-accented men yelling 'Qa'pla!'*

I hope this was fun and educational.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:39 PM.