Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-06-2012, 12:36 AM
Again, it is not a bug, it is really working at 80%.
They didn't take time to think about the change and simply cut cloaking value at 80%.
It is just another rushed ability.

IMO, reverse it to a normal cloak or copy / paste MES III cloak rating.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-06-2012, 08:08 AM
All I know is that it sucks as a cloak.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-06-2012, 08:30 AM
Yeah, it does suck. I mean really. If in DS9 a Prime Universe BoPs cloak can make the Regent's ship invisible to the Defiant when it's right on bloody top of it there's no reason in all of creation that a cloak BUILT for a larger ship like a Neg'var can't make the Bortas cloak effectively.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-06-2012, 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor_Forthright View Post
Yeah, it does suck. I mean really. If in DS9 a Prime Universe BoPs cloak can make the Regent's ship invisible to the Defiant when it's right on bloody top of it there's no reason in all of creation that a cloak BUILT for a larger ship like a Neg'var can't make the Bortas cloak effectively.
Not arguing about the 80% thing being stupid, but basing that argument on an episode where they said there are no cloaks in the MU and where they cloaked the cloak (!) with no power source (!!!) is not really helping.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-06-2012, 11:12 AM
If a normal cloak is not detected until about 5 km, and yet this one is being detected out at 12-15 km, that does sound like it needs to be checked for a bug.

If 100% gets one within 5 km, then 80% mathematically should get you to around 6 to 7 km before being detected. Though only other explanation is that cryptic uses an non linear formula for cloak detection.

If it was accidentally just 20% effective cloak, one could be detected out to 25 km.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-06-2012, 12:24 PM
My Bortas uses an inflatable mockup of itself to hide the real ships presence. I also have a costume for it that makes it look like a Good Humor Ice Cream truck, both techniques are more successful than its cloaking device AND I can have coffee in the morning!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-06-2012, 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverius View Post
If a normal cloak is not detected until about 5 km, and yet this one is being detected out at 12-15 km, that does sound like it needs to be checked for a bug.

If 100% gets one within 5 km, then 80% mathematically should get you to around 6 to 7 km before being detected. Though only other explanation is that cryptic uses an non linear formula for cloak detection.

If it was accidentally just 20% effective cloak, one could be detected out to 25 km.
No, in the tooltip it's exactly 80% of a normal cloak.

The following are just suppositions.

Imagine different ships having different cloaking value to determine at which distance they appear on your screen (for example, vo'quvs are the last to disappear from your screen when you engage full impulse near qo'nos).
Cloaking devices may just be a tool that sets your cloak rating at a new determined rating (~4950 for normal devices +/- 1% depending on skills and aux power).

Now take a cube, it appears at 94 km on you screen (i tested it right now). Lets say cubes have 0 cloak rating.
If a normal cloaking device is seen at ~2 km, you have 94-2 = 92 km to travel before being seen by the ennemy ship. A 80% of this value is 0.8*92 = 73.6 km.
Now if you travel 73.6 km of 94 km, there is 20.4 km left. So the ennemy ship would be able to see you at 20.4 km.
Coincidence?

My suppositions may be wrong, but the cloak rating of mask energy signature is still better than bortas cloak so it's probably not a bug.


EDIT : well in fact my math may be flawed because my camera was at a long distance from my ship but you see my point.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-06-2012, 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer View Post
My Bortas uses an inflatable mockup of itself to hide the real ships presence. I also have a costume for it that makes it look like a Good Humor Ice Cream truck, both techniques are more successful than its cloaking device AND I can have coffee in the morning!!!
Ice Cream trucks worked well for Cheech and Chong, besides who doesn't like ice cream?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-06-2012, 01:43 PM
Warpstalker, there have been typos in tooltips. Also, there is a great story of the MACO shield not reducing damage by 10% but TO 10% (well actually it hard capped at 75%) but such mistakes have happened. And yes, the tooltip said by 10%, but an error in the CODE (not tooltip) made it TO 10%.

As far as this cloak goes, I can easily see it accidentally coded 'reduce cloak by 80%' instead of 'reduce cloak by 20%' (to get an 80% effective cloak). It is a VALID thing to check with the numbers people are getting.

If it is working correctly, then Cryptic is using a non linear system for cloak detection, and that is fine but odd.

Also, with your math, we don't see any objects that far out in the game.

The way I figured it, at normal 100% you are detected at 5 km. 5 over 100% equals detected. So at 80%, or 5 over .8, you would be detected at 6.25 km. If it was at 20% effectiveness, it would be 5 over 20% or 25 km. Add stealth bonuses and you could get closer, to say 15 to 20 km before being detected....

Hey, guess what numbers I am matching!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-06-2012, 02:34 PM
Do note that with a character with a BoP with a cloak rating of about +4012 (according to the cloaking device power tooltip), I can sneak right up on enemy cruisers and only become visible within about five to seven kilometers- and I can get positively nose to nose with those cruisers with maxed stealth and a stealth console.



With the same character boosting the BortaS' cloak via the starship stealth skill up from 30xx something to 4007, enemies can see me at about 20km and will engage me the moment I'm in range.


This seemed, for the record, very strange. I tried juggling points around, but I didn't want to blow all my respect tokens. But basically: In a BoP, a +4000 stealth from cloak makes me virtually undetectable. In the BortaS, a +4000 stealth from cloak has virtually no effect at all.



At the end of the day my stealth rating is different by maybe eight points, according to the tooltips.


So is something wrong? Absolutely.
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