Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Its not intresting, its not fun, ITS FUSTRATING. Games are ment to be enjoyed for pete sake. Anything lower then assault cruiser is just unbearable. And ya if i could i would increase carrier turnrate too. These choices the devs keep making like this... *facepalms* seriously.


Was so looking forward to the Odd/Borta but turnrates of 5! come freaking on!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
01-31-2012, 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JToney3449 View Post
Its not intresting, its not fun, ITS FUSTRATING. Games are ment to be enjoyed for pete sake. Anything lower then assault cruiser is just unbearable. And ya if i could i would increase carrier turnrate too. These choices the devs keep making like this... *facepalms* seriously.


Was so looking forward to the Odd/Borta but turnrates of 5! come freaking on!
You sound pretty angry about a free, optional gift.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
01-31-2012, 09:30 PM
On the Odyssey:

Helm: Orders, Captain?
Captain: 90 degrees starboard ensign!
Everyone else on the bridge: *groans*

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
01-31-2012, 09:31 PM
I'm in.

I don't expect cruisers to turn better than science ships, or to DPS like escorts... but I think there's a bare minimum that should be observed... and I also include you in that category, KDF carrier captains.

I mean, each ship category can have a nice turn rate niche and stick to it:

Escorts: 15
Science Vessels: 12
Cruisers: 8

Mirandas with 10 weren't exactly agile. Excalibur-class cruisers with 9 were a bit less so, but okay. Turn rate 8 was a noticeable drop for the Heavy Cruiser, but still respectable. Anything lower gets increasingly tedious and should, as far as I'm concerned, not be in the game and propped up to higher values - I can emphasize with the need for cruisers to be slower... but watching a Galaxy with full engine power, mobility-specced captain and 4 Mk11 RCS console only manage a 180 turn in 18 seconds is just sad.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
01-31-2012, 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoberraz View Post
but watching a Galaxy with full engine power, mobility-specced captain and 4 Mk11 RCS console only manage a 180 turn in 18 seconds is just sad.
Not that I don't want higher turning rates, because lower ones do tend to drag a bit, but... maybe you shouldn't be turning a Galaxy at full speed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
01-31-2012, 09:35 PM
Exactly Zob, to add insult to injury the turnrate consoles are % based and virutally worthless. With 4 of them at 35% you go from 10 to like 13 degrees per second thats pathetic for how much armor/etc other stuff you lose for those 4 slots.

Make high end mk10+ consoles for RCS atleast +5 degrees per sec and simply make them not stack. And he said full engine power not full throttle.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
01-31-2012, 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destinii
Not that I don't want higher turning rates, because lower ones do tend to drag a bit, but... maybe you shouldn't be turning a Galaxy at full speed.
Who said I wasn't? It's nice to give me the subtle 'learn2play' message there - I meant engine power, not throttle. Besides, slowing down to tighten your turn is pretty much a must for captains of the other non-cruiser ships out there too.

Who said I didn't start initially as a big cruiser fan that started STO's Open Beta and played through it as an engineer captain, going for cruisers? Vesper-class cruisers have Turn Rate 9 - definitely slower than the Miranda and hardly handling like escorts - and I was fine with them. I even PvPed, and didn't suck.

Heavy cruisers had turn rate 8. Slower, and noticeably so... but still okay. Did nicely at PvP too - despite evil Birds of Prey with the paralyzing Viral Matrix (to which I had nothing against - I thought science powers were entitled to their perks).

And lo and behold: the Galaxy-class! My favorite ship ever! I finally get to pilot it... boldly going...

Going... well, the going was okay in Sector Space. The shock came later.

Well, once I was warping in a star system doing this Cardassian arc mission with the giant space lifeforms around... I discovered that the Cardassian Galors were tearing me to pieces. I couldn't turn and maneuver well enough to exploit their weaker shield quadrants while I had trouble also keeping my weak spots away from the business end of their weapons.

I still PvPed. Or tried to. And there swooped in the Klingon Vor'cha, catching me in my rear end and sticking there pouring firepower in there despite not having tractor beam, or me having evasive maneuvers and... well, basically had a very easy time just shooting at one shield and making my Galaxy-class popcorn open.

Which sadly, despite my attempts to persevere and adapt - because Ioved my Galaxy-class cruiser - did not really pay off. Trying to compensate with the deficiency using RCS consoles proved of little use, as giving a fractional bonus of something small means... you're not getting a whole lot (especially when you could put other consoles that'd have more visible impact too).

The end result was that the aberration that was the Galaxy's abnormally low turn rate poisoned my fun. I had loved playing cruisers until then, and then they became un-fun. I don't understand why I - or any other - should subject him/herself with un-fun-ness when using free time to practice a hobby. I felt I had too much respect for myself to bear up with that, so, I stopped trying. I tried something else.

It doesn't mean I did not wish it was otherwise, because had it not been of higher-level cruisers turn rate worsening to that extreme, I would still actively play them and likely would love every minute of it. Cruisers were fun at LtC and Cmd ranks. They should have stayed that way, rather than the contrary, giving many the impression that the 'ship upgrade' actually felt more like a regression.

The Excelsior seemed, for a Tier 5 ship, like a step in the right direction (aside from the nonsense of it outperforming more recent ships). I wasn't an Excelsior fan, though. So, I was hoping that the Odyssey would be that next endgame cruiser that would finally set things right.

And instead, we just got showed that the Devs did not get the point. They stuck to even lower turn rate values, assuming it's remotely fun to be in that kind of ship - whereas turning around in that is about as pleasant as sustaining testicular injury.

Do I want to see cruisers with escort turn-rates? Of course not! But I want the lower extreme raised to something more respectable. I've had enough with seeing this aspect of how I could enjoy the game made this way because the Devs have some finicky perception of 'ship balance' taking priority over the fun-factor derived from how well they handle.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
01-31-2012, 10:11 PM
To the op, if you don't like it, play something else. A different cruiser, a different class of ship, something.

To Zoberraz, I was prepared to just tell everyone complaining to live with it - I'm perfectly fine with the way my Galaxy turns. But your post was actually good, constructive criticism, well done. While I still don't agree that cruisers *need* a turn rate buff (neither would I complain if they got one), you do make good points.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
01-31-2012, 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JToney3449 View Post
Its not intresting, its not fun, ITS FUSTRATING. Games are ment to be enjoyed for pete sake. Anything lower then assault cruiser is just unbearable. And ya if i could i would increase carrier turnrate too. These choices the devs keep making like this... *facepalms* seriously.


Was so looking forward to the Odd/Borta but turnrates of 5! come freaking on!
Well it's a cruiser, and it's bigger than all the others, so one would expect the turn rate would be lower. Honestly if you are flying a Cruiser, turn rate is the least of your worries if you spec it right, it shouldn't even really matter. If you want it to turn spec points into it, and throw a RCS console on it. Problem solved. Not like you have to fly it...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
01-31-2012, 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahn View Post
Well it's a cruiser, and it's bigger than all the others, so one would expect the turn rate would be lower. Honestly if you are flying a Cruiser, turn rate is the least of your worries if you spec it right, it shouldn't even really matter. If you want it to turn spec points into it, and throw a RCS console on it. Problem solved. Not like you have to fly it...
You're not exactly gonna break 20 turnrate even speccing into it. Or even 15.
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